Total system lockup

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by DaveUK, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi all,

    I have a hardware related issue - but I am unsure of even where to begin looking to find the problem, so I was hoping someone might be able to guide me in the right direction or point out possible causes.

    I built a PC around 6 months ago. It has a good spec (AMD athlon XP 3200+, 1GB ram, Antec LanBoy case, and Antec SL350PGB 350W PSU) and the PSU is brand new.

    Every since I got it I have been suffering from random lockups (i.e. in the middle of using Windows, the PC will 100% lockup, no keyboard activity, no mouse activity, screen frozen, but power on the PC remains on). It is not a windows issue or a software issue (I also have linux on the pc, and it does the same).

    The lockups are totally random - sometimes I can go weeks without a lockup, other times I will have the PC on for a few hours and then suffer a lockup....reboot it, and it will be fine for another 2 weeks...it's very very weird.

    I originally thought it must be overheating...but I literally have no more room for fans. The Antec Lanboy case has 2 huge fans (one at front and one at bacK), I have a suitable heatsink and fan, and my PSU is a dual fan one! (back and bottom). It could be overheating...but I don't know where else I could fit more fans!

    My assumption is that RAM could not cause a full lockup of mouse/keyboard etc...so I am (blindly) assuming that this has to be related to either the processor or the motherboard.

    My question is...which do you think is the most likely culprit? and have you ever experienced anything like this?

    Thanks all,

    Dave
     
  2. ThePenguinCometh

    ThePenguinCometh There is no escape

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello, welcome to the forums.


    My first pointer is this thread. I don't know how good your PSU is but it's not on the "recommended" list.


    My first suspect is overheating too though it sounds like you have that well covered. Just for the record though what temperature is your CPU running at?


    Bad asssumption. The RAM would be my second suspect. The OS sits in the RAM and it's the OS that controls the mouse and keyboard. If the RAM locks up so does the whole computer. You could try testing the RAM with Memtest and see if that comes up with anything or you could just replace the RAM chips with similiarly specced ones if you have any spare or in another computer.


    In situations like this, the following is the list of possible problems I usually suspect in descending order:

    1. Overheating
    2. Damaged RAM chip
    3. PSU problems
    4. Loose wires, connection, PCI cards, etc

    After that, who knows? Try the above ideas and let me know how it goes.
     
    Anti-Trend and DaveUK like this.
  3. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you!

    You are quite right, and that memtest tool is superb. I performed the tests and found about 100+ errors in 2 sweeps of the tests, so it would appear ram is the prob.

    One interesting thing though - I took one stick out (to try and determine which stick has problems, as I have 2 x 512 DDR). On one stick it found 3 errors...and on the other it found 66.

    Is it strange for both sticks to have problems? and is it worth the $$ to replace the stick that only has 3 errors?

    Thanks,
     
  4. ThePenguinCometh

    ThePenguinCometh There is no escape

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Glad I could be of help. I'm not sure about the chip with three errors but I suspect the answer would be yes, replace it. There's no way, as far as I know, to mark a "bad sector" on a RAM chip like you can do with hard-drives so those three errors (physical damage I'm assuming) could be the source of otherwise inexplicable, perhaps even unnoticable but signifigant, problems as some point in the future.
     
  5. zRoCkIsAdDiCtInG

    zRoCkIsAdDiCtInG HWF Guitar Freak

    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe that mostly its overheating, or like alos PC said, a damaged RAM chip can cause the same problem.

    if it occurs alot then it would be a good idea to replace them to protect not only system performance but also other components.

    Ultra provides a good deal on RAM with DDR333 for 512 mb for 30$ after rebates, if you don't want to spend much thats a good solution and Ultra is pretty reliable.
     
    thedon57 likes this.
  6. Big B

    Big B HWF Godfather

    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    While the standard DDR voltage is 2.5V, some RAM may require a little big more to function correctly. I'd check your BIOS settings to see if you can adjust this any. I wouldn't go above 2.8V unless you know that RAM is able to handle it.
     
  7. Fred

    Fred Moderator

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    While is is a bit odd for both sticks to have problems, you can tell from the other responses that it is not a phenomenon or anything.
    I would highly recommend that you replace both sticks of RAM. Some operating systems are built to try to work around bad sectors in RAM (IE: Linux distros) but Windows, unfortunately, has failed to include this feature. So even if your operating system wouldn't randomly lock up on the less broken RAM, you would definetly experience some instability.
    Another thing that wouldn't cause the ram to go bad, but could be a culprit is the brand of RAM you've gotten. Just like with anything else, there are companies with high quality products, and those who just want to cash in on people that dont know any better. So when you go to replace these two sticks (or just one?), I would suggest that you go for one of the following brands (though I'm sure others could tack on a couple): Corsair, Kingston, or Mushkin. I would only go for the last one if you're short on cash, as I trust Corsair and Kingston more... Well, I hope I've helped and you get all of this sorted!
     
  8. Matt555

    Matt555 iMod

    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    48
    i have that exact same problem, i thought it was PSU but it cant be as computer is still on but everything freezes, and if there's audio then the speakers start to crackle and make unusual noises, i may have to test my ram and might have to replace it.....hmmm
     
  9. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks all :)

    The ram I had was 2 x 512mb DDR PC3200 400mhz Kingston ram. I think however that it was from their "value" range - and although most reviews I have read seem good, some people do seem to say that they also received bad ram.

    I was recommended to try Crucial ram (which seems to have very good reviews) - does anyone else use this? :)
     
  10. Matt555

    Matt555 iMod

    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    48
    ahh i have 2 x 256Mb Pc2700 DDR333 from kingstons value range, might look into gettting 1Gb (2 x 512Mb) and if there's and problems with this ram after i test it with memtest then i wont use this as well, if memtest doesnt find any problems i think it may be the PSU as its not the best and is only 300W and i do have 2 optical drives, hdd, floppy drive, etc so it may be that hmmmmmm
     
  11. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think its most likely the ram - the reviews i read on ebuyer.com of Kingston valueram are quite mixed (mostly good, but a few people reported the same lockups). The Crucial ram has 120 reviews and an average of 5/5 rating :) so I will stick to that from now on.
     
  12. Matt555

    Matt555 iMod

    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    48
    the ram i tested using memtest had no errors, it ran 2 passes and nothing....strange, this leads me to think my psu could be at fault as its not the best and i could do with a brand name, i think i'll get me one of those ocz modstream ones
     
  13. Big B

    Big B HWF Godfather

    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The Kingston ValueRAM is rated for CAS3. The nForce 2 chipset has issues with CAS3 settings. Now, this is if the stuff is running at 400MHz. If you run it at 333MHz, you'll probably be fine if you can change the CAS setting to 2.5.
     
  14. Matt555

    Matt555 iMod

    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    48
    i think mine is CAS2, (2-3-3-6) (is that what you mean)
     
  15. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bad news :(:(

    I got the new 2 x 512 ram sticks yesterday and swopped them for my old ones (that memtest confirmed had errors). All was fine for about a day...however, I just suffered another full pc lockup :( the problem is clearly still there :(

    I now have a brand new PSU and brand new RAM. The psu is the same brand/make as I have always used (which was fine) so I am sure its not that...

    I am going to run a test overnight using this software: http://www.7byte.com/index.php?page=hotcpu

    I don't know if this helps but after the last lockup/freeze - when my pc reboot the cmos had forgotten what date/time it was (probably all settings, but it auto-redetected most). Does this point to a motherboard problem?

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  16. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just an addition:

    Could this be something simpler? usb perhaps? I do have front usb ports on my case that I use quite regularly....I wonder if a faulty/dodgy front usb port could cause the intermitant lockups i am experiencing?

    Thinking back...before these lockups became more frequent I think it first occured when I was plugging a USB device into the front usb port (it locked up right after I put the USB device in).
     
  17. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, i think most people abandoned this thread now lol...but for those that are interested ;) I think I have found the root cause...this is crazy but, it appears to be my second hard drive. Windows boots from c: but I also have a spare d: drive in there which I added about 3 months back. I started noticing that crashes were *more likely* to occur when I was accessing or working with files/data from the d:

    I scanned the drive with Norton and with Windows scandisk - and neither found any problems with it. However, I have now unplugged the hard drive...and the PC has not locked up or frozen since!

    I have no idea whats wrong with the drive...but if my computer remains stable for another couple of days I will declare this problem "solved" :)
     
    ThePenguinCometh likes this.
  18. pelvis_3

    pelvis_3 HWF Member For Life

    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You should check the manufacturers website (of your HDD) and download scanning tools and such and do thourough tests with them as they are 'made' for your particular drive. I have 2 WD 40gig HDD's and scan them with Data Lifeguard once a month for errors and have occasionly found bad sectors.
     
  19. DaveUK

    DaveUK Geek Trainee

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thanks :) a friend actually gave me this drive as he had it spare...and since removing it i've had no problems. My suspicion is that he had probs with it too bleh ;) hence why i ended up with it

    I don't think bad sectors would cause a full lockup - i think this is more serious a faul with the device itself.
     
  20. max12590

    max12590 Masterful Geek

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yea I gree. Well I am glad you solved the problem
     

Share This Page