Microsoft loses landmark EU antitrust case
- Thread starter DaRuSsIaMaN
- Start date
RHochstenbach
Administrator
Finally a way to limit the power of M$ :P
Impotence
May the source be with u!
unfortunately its only a mere scratch... when they start fining them billions let me know :)
Whats the point of such a small fine (compared to the size of M$) for abusing there monopoly, when there still a monopoly and they've done most of the abusing they need to do to keep themselves where they are for a good few years?
Whats the point of such a small fine (compared to the size of M$) for abusing there monopoly, when there still a monopoly and they've done most of the abusing they need to do to keep themselves where they are for a good few years?
RHochstenbach
Administrator
Well, 690 million dollars is a good start. The EU should actually force Microsoft to give 50% of all Windows licenses they sell to the EU :)
Big B
HWF Godfather
Here's what I don't get about these anti-trust cases:
They tell Microsoft to be competitive and force them to not include certain apps, like a media player or web browser. Isn't this like telling Ford they can't install their own seats and need to let the customer pick that?
You don't have to use Windows Media Player if you don't want to. You don't have to use IE for web browsing. I'm just stunned at the idea that Microsoft is being told they can't bundle some of their programs with an OS they make and distribute.
They tell Microsoft to be competitive and force them to not include certain apps, like a media player or web browser. Isn't this like telling Ford they can't install their own seats and need to let the customer pick that?
You don't have to use Windows Media Player if you don't want to. You don't have to use IE for web browsing. I'm just stunned at the idea that Microsoft is being told they can't bundle some of their programs with an OS they make and distribute.
RHochstenbach
Administrator
No, because Internet Explorer is bundled with Windows it is very hard for other browsers to get the attention of users. The same is for Media Player. Some players cost money. And if people have a media player with the same functionality but free, then it would be bad for the companies who create paid versions.
Microsoft should do the following: When you want to use something (internet or music player), you should see a message where you can choose what browser/media player you want to use. And of course with a description of the features, so users won't get confused.
Actually if a company gets too much power (but really a big difference), then it should be slowed down, because it is impossible for other people to start a business. And that is one of the new regulations in the EU.
Let's say Ford is the only car company in the world. All cars have a cd/radio player, navigation system and a fridge. It is then difficult for other manufacturers to produce any of these parts, because no one needs it as it is bundled with every car. Let's also say that all cars of Ford are SUVs. That is the new standard, so you don't need tarmac on the road. Now a different company creates an alternative car. And it is just a sedan. It won't be able to drive on the roads because it is designed for the Ford SUVs. This is about the same.
RHochstenbach
Administrator
But it isn't only Microsoft that has issues with the EU. Telephone companies and ISPs within the EU have to lower the costs of their services, otherwise they need to pay high fines as well.
DaRuSsIaMaN
Geek Comrade
Well actually at the end of the article it says that the end result of all this could be more than 1 billion fines in *euros*, which is even more in dollars.
"Brussels fined Microsoft a further 280 million euros in July 2006 after finding that it was not respecting its original ruling, and the company faces further penalties that could bring the total well past one billion euros."
Are you popping open your champagne bottle yet? heh heh
P.S. It's funny how all you guys cheer at every misfortune of MS
Impotence
May the source be with u!
No, a car coming without seats would be like an operating system coming without drivers for CD drives or networking, how would you use it? Some people do change the seats in there cars, but (normally) it is for something special (like carbon-fibre bucket seats). Some things need/should be included, some things are just anti-competitive to include (like how M$ destroyed netscape by including internet explorer with every windows install).
Besides, I believe M$ got around that by releasing different releases of windows (Home, Professional and a version without Media Player)
The EU did this to protect us (well, me and everyone else in the EU) from a blatant abuse of a monopoly. M$ is not a democracy. M$ does not have are best interests at heart. M$ is a huge, ugly, business with only one interest and that’s to make money and to do that they exploit any market they touch and rip us off in every way they can find.
Don't believe me? have a look at the xbox 360... M$ is effectively trying to BUY a monopoly in the games console market, they are making enormous losses but because they can pull profits from other parts of M$ to cover it, they keep on going. How is that competitive?
[OT]
I could argue this alot better, but i don't have the time to just now
[/OT]
RHochstenbach
Administrator
That's true. You can only use parts from Microsoft on an xbox 360. Like hard drive, headset and even the cables to connect it to the tv. And when you bought everything, then you'll need a subscription to xbox live if you want to play online, and that's very expensive. That's why I sold my 360.
And for all the prices in their products; they are expensive and not even complete. Let's take Windows Vista:
Vista Ultimate: €350
But that's not all:
MS Office: €400
You'll also need protection software:
Average price for computer security (antivirus and firewall): €60
So only the software on the pc costs €810. That is £563!
And for all the prices in their products; they are expensive and not even complete. Let's take Windows Vista:
Vista Ultimate: €350
But that's not all:
MS Office: €400
You'll also need protection software:
Average price for computer security (antivirus and firewall): €60
So only the software on the pc costs €810. That is £563!
Impotence
May the source be with u!
Ubuntu + Open Office (installed by default) = Cost of downloading the iso & a cd-r (about £0.20 [$0.10])
And don't forget about the money you would save by not having to have a overly powerful computer just to run Vista (and if you like vista's special effects, search youtube for beryl!)
[OT]
I would post a video but youtube is blocked from my college
[/OT]
And don't forget about the money you would save by not having to have a overly powerful computer just to run Vista (and if you like vista's special effects, search youtube for beryl!)
[OT]
I would post a video but youtube is blocked from my college
[/OT]
RHochstenbach
Administrator
Big B
HWF Godfather
But, without a browser, how does one use the internet on the system? WMP isn't the only free media player out there, and if MS would start charging for that, there'd be an uproar.
Shouldn't Apple be forced to do this as well? I mean, they pre-load Safari, iTunes, and Quicktime with the Mac, same as what Microsoft does with Windows.
The arguement doesn't quite fit. Microsoft is not the only company producing an OS. Apple had an OS out before Microsoft because Apple wouldn't liscense out it's OS to HP, Compaq, Dell, etc. when they wanted a slice of the home PC market.
Apple is, by choice, proprietary in nature. Even with x86-based systems now, without BootCamp, you cannot use another OS.
Unlike Windows and Mac OS, Linux doesn't have a platform it's known to be paired and sold with. It's certainly capable, given that nearly any architecture available has a distribution available for it, but there's no major PC vendor out there (there are some, but not as well known) that's making it's mark with Linux systems. Secondly, the number of distributions for Linux are quite numerous, and many don't have the marketing capabilities of the like of Microsoft or Apple. Those that come close are far and few between, and I haven't seen much of an effort in the marketing department.
There are options available, but it is not Microsoft's problem that the competition isn't competing on the advertising front. Microsoft is a massive company as we all know, and with it comes such things are deep pockets. The nature of Linux is free or very little cost for the OS, which combined with the aforementioned number of distributions probably leaves less for the marketing. Again, there's a few that have the cash, but most don't have Novell or RedHat, and in those two cases, they seem more focused on the Server/Enterprise market than the desktop.
Point being, Microsoft may very well not have that good of competition to begin with when it comes to marketing, and what little they do have, they have the cash to market products very well.
Swansen
The Ninj
Well, i can see where everyone is coming from, but this lawsuit does seem a little misplaced. Not letting Microsoft bundle WMP and IE, doesn't further anything but confusion. If they really wanted to make an impact they would make them bundle other browsers and media players as well, and let the consumer choose, i think Rhoch was alluding to that. The only other issue i see here is its taking a step backwards as far as usability goes. Bottom line is the common user doesn't care what he/she uses as long as it works, so now they have to choose between a crap ton of options which is only going to create more issues. The only way Microsoft is going to change anything is if a viable alternative pops up and creates competition for Microsoft, to which there are none. So if the government decided one day to make some operating system that could use all current programs and is really easy to use and be distributed through major computer manufacturers then i could see a change in Microsoft and the market.
RHochstenbach
Administrator
Apple should also face the same consequences as Microsoft of course, because they include iTunes and Safari and forcing people who buy an iPhone to activate it using iTunes.
When you want to launch a music/video player or want to access the internet, you should see a screen where you can choose what program that you want and it should then install that specific program. That would be much better, I guess.
When you want to launch a music/video player or want to access the internet, you should see a screen where you can choose what program that you want and it should then install that specific program. That would be much better, I guess.