[CLOSED] Older computer have always crashed (during games)

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by TheAnd, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Hello experts

    Introduction:
    Six years ago I made my homebuilt system. This was the first (and only) time I have done so - and I didn't have anyone helping me. At first glance it looked as though I succeeded, but it wasn't long before I had my first in-game crash. Then again, and again, and again...
    I used all my money on the build and didn't have any left for a professional to diagnose it (and I probably still don't). So after trying everything I could think of with my limited knowledge (and Google) I just learned to live with it. But now, 6 years later, I want to try again. I don't have any more knowledge about computers than I had then - so I'm asking you to please help me.

    The problem:
    The crashes ONLY happen in 3d applications (i.e. Crysis, Driver: San Fransisco, OMSI, - you name it!). I'm "allowed" to play for a various amount of time (sometimes it crashes within seconds, other times I can play for up to an hour - but generally ten to fifteen minutes). At first the monitor goes black. After a few seconds there's a bluescreen - but for too short a time (<0.5 sec.) too read. And then the monitor signal is cut and the computer restarts. I hope there is no need to tell that I of course have made several clean installs of Windows without luck. Other than the crashes the computer lives up to all my expectations, and it performs very well (for a computer this old).

    The system:
    Mainboard: ALiveSATA2-GLAN
    Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ (2C 2.6GHz IMC, 2x1MB L2)
    Memory: 2x OCZ2G8001GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800
    Graphics processor: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX (768MB DDR3 1.8GHz 384-bit)
    Hard disk: Seagate ST3160211AS (160GB, SATA150, 2MB Cache)
    Optical drive: Optiarc DVD RW AD-5170A
    Monitor: SAMSUNG LE46A-866 (TV), previously: Mirai 19" and one other pc monitor of which I don't recall the name
    Power supply unit: MS-TECH MS-N650-VAL

    At one point I suspected the PSU for not delivering enough power. Therefore I've tested the system with dual PSU (the second PSU was a Colors IT 400W which came with the cabinet). But it made no difference. It also runs the same with just the Colors IT PSU.

    Operating system: Windows 7 Ultimate (service pack 1), previously: Windows XP, Windows Vista

    I guess there's nothing else to say than I really hope someone is able to pinpoint what's wrong (and has been wrong for all of it's "living" time [​IMG] Thanks in advance.

    PS: If you need ANY other information, just ask.
     
  2. Ghostman 1

    Ghostman 1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, straight off i see a problem... The Motherboard is a Asrock, these Motherboards are know to have problems, heck I have three here that are no good...
    Stay away from Asrock and Foxconn,,, Now your problem could be anywhere,From Motherboard to video card to hard drive...power supply should be a know brand and it should be %80 certified..and should be at least 500 watts..
     
  3. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    So in other words you're saying that there's no chance of knowing if it's the motherboard, graphics card or hard drive - just by reading my specs? Are there no other information I can give you to give clues as to what could be wrong?

    Thanks for replying :)
     
  4. Ghostman 1

    Ghostman 1 Moderator Staff Member

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    First thing to try, Is another Video card Or try your card in another computer..You will have to rule out each Piece of hardware that may be causing the trouble..
    Most freeze ups are cause by Video/Ram/Or bad sector on the hard drive..
     
  5. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Yeah, I've thought of that, but damn... every single one of my friends have laptops - so I have no chance of just borrowing a desktop pc. And buying a new/used one is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. It just doesn't pay when it's that old and people in my country think it's such a good idea selling their 10 year old desktop pc for $200 (pay attention to the sarcasm, I'm from Denmark :p). It's overprized enough as it is...
    But I will definitely try to find another videocard somewhere. Perhaps that's something I can afford :) But I'm still open for suggestions.
     
  6. Jan Benedict

    Jan Benedict Geek

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    Troubleshoot each components.. If you really want to buy some well-known stores are: Newegg, Landmark, NCIX, Tigerdirect and etc2.. They also have promo coupons and sales so it will be easy for you to find a new gpu, HD 6570 or GT 430 or GT 630 try those..
     
  7. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Well, as mentioned I'm from Denmark and I don't have much money. Buying new components from American stores would therefore be an expensive deal no matter what. That's customs for you ;)
     
  8. Jan Benedict

    Jan Benedict Geek

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    Try the following:
    Case 1: Run Windows Event Viewer, check for any relevant error messages (those with critical and/or error signs) - Post what you find
    Case 2: Disable automatic restart so that you can read the BSOD message if it is too fast to read.
    Click 'Start'
    Click on 'Run'
    Type in "sysdm.cpl" (without the quotes) and press Enter
    Click on the 'Advanced' tab
    Click on the 'Startup and Recovery' Settings button
    Uncheck 'Automatically restart', then click on OK
    Click on OK to exit the System applet, then close the Control Panel.
    Reboot for the changes to take effect
    Case 3:Find dump files and get them analyze or analyze them yourself.
     
  9. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    That's exactly the kinds of advice I was looking forward to. I had no idea there was something called Event Viewer. But unfortunately I don't have much time right now (Christmas coming up) - but I'll see if I can get my head around it near future (perhaps later today, perhaps sunday, perhaps after Christmas). Also I had the opportunity to borrow an old video card, but it's too slow to run any of the games I have installed - so I just need to find another game, which it WILL run - and then test both video card 1 & 2 with that game. A timely affair right now - but I'll get to it :)

    Thanks for all the help. I will return with (hopefully) some answers
     
  10. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Ok, I know I said I didn't have much time, but I couldn't let it go...

    I don't know if this is the information you want - otherwise direct me to it (there's a lot of things to find in this Event Viewer-thing):
    Code:
    - System 
    
      - Provider 
    
       [ Name]  Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power 
       [ Guid]  {331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4} 
     
       EventID 41 
     
       Version 2 
     
       Level 1 
     
       Task 63 
     
       Opcode 0 
     
       Keywords 0x8000000000000002 
     
      - TimeCreated 
    
       [ SystemTime]  2012-12-19T15:30:07.671875000Z 
     
       EventRecordID 83528 
     
       Correlation 
     
      - Execution 
    
       [ ProcessID]  4 
       [ ThreadID]  8 
     
       Channel System 
     
       Computer JohanneAndersen 
     
      - Security 
    
       [ UserID]  S-1-5-18 
     
    
    - EventData 
    
      BugcheckCode 278 
      BugcheckParameter1 0x85720008 
      BugcheckParameter2 0x91fce996 
      BugcheckParameter3 0xc000009a 
      BugcheckParameter4 0x4 
      SleepInProgress false 
      PowerButtonTimestamp 0 
    
    Also I found some downloadable Windows content - WinDbg (Windows Debugger?) which I need to have "deciphered". First from the LiveKernelReports folder:
    Code:
    Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.2.9200.20512 X86
    Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
     
     
    Loading Dump File [C:\Windows\LiveKernelReports\WATCHDOG\WD-20121219-1628.dmp]
    Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
     
    Symbol search path is: srv*
    Executable search path is: srv*
    Windows 7 Kernel Version 7601 (Service Pack 1) MP (2 procs) Free x86 compatible
    Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
    Built by: 7601.17944.x86fre.win7sp1_gdr.120830-0333
    Machine Name:
    Kernel base = 0x81a14000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x81b5e4d0
    Debug session time: Wed Dec 19 16:28:59.418 2012 (UTC + 1:00)
    System Uptime: 0 days 0:08:02.231
    Loading Kernel Symbols
    ...............................................................
    ................................................................
    ...........................
    Loading User Symbols
    Mini Kernel Dump does not contain unloaded driver list
    *******************************************************************************
    *                                                                            *
    *                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
    *                                                                            *
    *******************************************************************************
     
    Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
     
    BugCheck 117, {85720008, 919145aa, 0, 0}
     
    *** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
    *** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for nvlddmkm.sys
    Probably caused by : nvlddmkm.sys ( nvlddmkm+f15aa )
     
    Followup: MachineOwner
    ---------
     
    0: kd> !analyze -v
    *******************************************************************************
    *                                                                            *
    *                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
    *                                                                            *
    *******************************************************************************
     
    VIDEO_TDR_TIMEOUT_DETECTED (117)
    The display driver failed to respond in timely fashion.
    (This code can never be used for real bugcheck).
    Arguments:
    Arg1: 85720008, Optional pointer to internal TDR recovery context (TDR_RECOVERY_CONTEXT).
    Arg2: 919145aa, The pointer into responsible device driver module (e.g owner tag).
    Arg3: 00000000, The secondary driver specific bucketing key.
    Arg4: 00000000, Optional internal context dependent data.
     
    Debugging Details:
    ------------------
     
     
    FAULTING_IP:
    nvlddmkm+f15aa
    919145aa ??              ???
     
    DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  GRAPHICS_DRIVER_TDR_TIMEOUT
     
    TAG_NOT_DEFINED_202b:  *** Unknown TAG in analysis list 202b
     
     
    BUGCHECK_STR:  0x117
     
    PROCESS_NAME:  System
     
    CURRENT_IRQL:  0
     
    STACK_TEXT: 
    906b7cb4 921b8101 00000000 919145aa 8e09e07e dxgkrnl!TdrUpdateDbgReport+0x68
    906b7cdc 921b7cc0 00000000 81a4abb9 85720008 dxgkrnl!TdrCollectDbgInfoStage2+0x1ab
    906b7d18 921b815c 85720008 85d16698 906b7d3c dxgkrnl!DXGADAPTER::Reset+0xb6
    906b7d28 9098420b 85720008 85d16698 00000000 dxgkrnl!TdrResetFromTimeout+0x12
    906b7d3c 90987485 85d16698 00000000 85d24210 dxgmms1!VidSchiRecoverFromTDR+0x15
    906b7d50 81c1e07a 85d16698 a12d1dd7 00000000 dxgmms1!VidSchiWorkerThread+0x7f
    906b7d90 81ac4819 90987406 85d16698 00000000 nt!PspSystemThreadStartup+0x9e
    00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 nt!KiThreadStartup+0x19
     
     
    STACK_COMMAND:  .bugcheck ; kb
     
    FOLLOWUP_IP:
    nvlddmkm+f15aa
    919145aa ??              ???
     
    SYMBOL_NAME:  nvlddmkm+f15aa
     
    FOLLOWUP_NAME:  MachineOwner
     
    MODULE_NAME: nvlddmkm
     
    IMAGE_NAME:  nvlddmkm.sys
     
    DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP:  50b9769d
     
    FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x117_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys
     
    BUCKET_ID:  0x117_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys
     
    Followup: MachineOwner
    ---------
     
    0: kd> lmvm nvlddmkm
    start    end        module name
    91823000 92132000  nvlddmkm T (no symbols)         
        Loaded symbol image file: nvlddmkm.sys
        Image path: nvlddmkm.sys
        Image name: nvlddmkm.sys
        Timestamp:        Sat Dec 01 04:16:45 2012 (50B9769D)
        CheckSum:        008FE84D
        ImageSize:        0090F000
        Translations:    0000.04b0 0000.04e4 0409.04b0 0409.04e4
    Mini Kernel Dump does not contain unloaded driver list
    
    As to the "disable automatic restart" I'm about to do that now - but shouldn't it say the same as the dump-file?
     
  11. Jan Benedict

    Jan Benedict Geek

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    The first code in you quoted, error ID 41 Kernel-Power, means that your system has lost power and turned off before shutting down properly. I encountered this problem before and I ended up having to RMA my GPU from Landmark, the place that I bought the GPU since I unfortunately got a bad batch of card.. But the difference from yours is that yours is displaying BSOD error message, which usually points to faulty RAM. Try doing a memtest on each of your RAM sticks if you have more than one.
     
  12. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Hello again. I had my friend take a look at it. He updated the motherboard BIOS and everything is ok now. Thanks for your effort and happy holidays... And if someone could please help me close the thread (*SOLVED?)
     
  13. Jan Benedict

    Jan Benedict Geek

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    Nice! I haven't noticed that your MOBO was AsRock.
     
  14. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    ###THREE MONTHS LATER###

    Hello. I'm back!

    I argued whether to start a new thread or continue this one. The ladder won the argument to the fact that I'm reasonably sure that the new problem is somewhat related to the original issue (post dated December, 15). Also in my perspective it makes it so much easier to not include all the original information. Just tell me if it's necessary to begin a new thread instead - and it's done!

    New problem:
    The computer have run smoothly - some would call it flawlessly - for about three months after the "SOLVED" post; December, 23. Then one day while playing MineCraft, the screen all of the sudden blacked out and I had to force reboot. But while the fans, sound and HDD indicator worked fine, there still was no monitor signal. I tried replacing the video card with the low performance one I bought while debugging in December. But still no monitor signal. Last Tuesday I finally took it to a repair shop that stated that I needed a new video card. So I bought a brand new one, replaced the old one, made a clean driver installation and went back to MineCraft (I have no idea why my spare low performance VGA card didn't work when mounted).
    But of course it didn't work properly... Or else you wouldn't be reading this. What seems like the same problem that I had in December now appears again. When running games the computer suddenly crashes (no visible BSOD though). I've reinstalled the graphics driver of course - with no luck. The difference as I see it is that I'm "allowed" to play a lot longer before crashing than I were back in December. But I wasn't playing MineCraft in December - and therefore don't know if it would have been the same back then.

    Hardware changes:
    Graphics processor: Nvidia GeForce GT 520 (1 GB SDDR3) [Inno3d]

    - Also I have two more (second-hand) memory blocks (1x1 GB; 1x512 MB). But the problem occurs no matter the arrangement of the memory (all at once, only the "new" memory, only the old etc.).

    Solution?
    Again, it would be great if someone could solve the mystery of the dysfunctional computer. Also, I was in a chat with my friend who helped me the first time. He is no professional but definitely knows a lot more than me. We were arguing whether the motherboard has always been faulty - and possibly could have caused the old video card to die. I would also like your view on this.

    As always, if you need any more information, just ask! Thanks in advance!

    - Theis

    [SEE MY NEXT POST FOR DEBUGGING]
     
  15. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    Debugging:
    Here's the Event Viewer log file:
    Code:
    - System
     
      - Provider
     
      [ Name]  Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power
      [ Guid]  {331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}
     
      EventID 41
     
      Version 2
     
      Level 1
     
      Task 63
     
      Opcode 0
     
      Keywords 0x8000000000000002
     
      - TimeCreated
     
      [ SystemTime]  2013-04-05T09:12:10.109375000Z
     
      EventRecordID 10981
     
      Correlation
     
      - Execution
     
      [ ProcessID]  4
      [ ThreadID]  8
     
      Channel System
     
      Computer Desktop
     
      - Security
     
      [ UserID]  S-1-5-18
     
     
    - EventData
     
      BugcheckCode 278
      BugcheckParameter1 0xfffffa8002d724e0
      BugcheckParameter2 0xfffff880051f06c4
      BugcheckParameter3 0xffffffffc000009a
      BugcheckParameter4 0x4
      SleepInProgress false
      PowerButtonTimestamp 0
    Once again I have been using WinDbg to help me - or rather help YOU - to analyse what's wrong (I can't decipher this code):
    Code:
    Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.2.9200.20512 AMD64
    Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
     
     
    Loading Dump File [C:\Windows\Minidump\040513-28234-01.dmp]
    Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
     
    WARNING: Inaccessible path: 'C:\windbgtest'
    Symbol search path is: srv*DownstreamStore*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
    Executable search path is: C:\windbgtest
    Windows 7 Kernel Version 7601 (Service Pack 1) MP (2 procs) Free x64
    Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
    Built by: 7601.18044.amd64fre.win7sp1_gdr.130104-1431
    Machine Name:
    Kernel base = 0xfffff800`02a65000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`02ca9670
    Debug session time: Fri Apr  5 11:10:41.453 2013 (UTC + 2:00)
    System Uptime: 0 days 0:51:49.203
    Loading Kernel Symbols
    ...............................................................
    ................................................................
    ......................
    Loading User Symbols
    Loading unloaded module list
    .....
    *******************************************************************************
    *                                                                            *
    *                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
    *                                                                            *
    *******************************************************************************
     
    Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
     
    BugCheck 116, {fffffa8002d724e0, fffff880051f06c4, ffffffffc000009a, 4}
     
    Unable to load image \SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\nvlddmkm.sys, Win32 error 0n2
    *** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
    *** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for nvlddmkm.sys
    Probably caused by : nvlddmkm.sys ( nvlddmkm+9316c4 )
     
    Followup: MachineOwner
    ---------
     
    0: kd> !analyze -v
    *******************************************************************************
    *                                                                            *
    *                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
    *                                                                            *
    *******************************************************************************
     
    VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE (116)
    Attempt to reset the display driver and recover from timeout failed.
    Arguments:
    Arg1: fffffa8002d724e0, Optional pointer to internal TDR recovery context (TDR_RECOVERY_CONTEXT).
    Arg2: fffff880051f06c4, The pointer into responsible device driver module (e.g. owner tag).
    Arg3: ffffffffc000009a, Optional error code (NTSTATUS) of the last failed operation.
    Arg4: 0000000000000004, Optional internal context dependent data.
     
    Debugging Details:
    ------------------
     
     
    FAULTING_IP:
    nvlddmkm+9316c4
    fffff880`051f06c4 4055            push    rbp
     
    DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  GRAPHICS_DRIVER_TDR_FAULT
     
    CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT:  1
     
    BUGCHECK_STR:  0x116
     
    PROCESS_NAME:  System
     
    CURRENT_IRQL:  0
     
    STACK_TEXT:
    fffff880`02e3eb88 fffff880`02d1c000 : 00000000`00000116 fffffa80`02d724e0 fffff880`051f06c4 ffffffff`c000009a : nt!KeBugCheckEx
    fffff880`02e3eb90 fffff880`02cef867 : fffff880`051f06c4 fffffa80`03be7000 00000000`00000000 ffffffff`c000009a : dxgkrnl!TdrBugcheckOnTimeout+0xec
    fffff880`02e3ebd0 fffff880`02d1be0f : fffffa80`ffffd84d ffffffff`fffe7960 fffffa80`02d724e0 00000000`00000000 : dxgkrnl!DXGADAPTER::Reset+0x2a3
    fffff880`02e3ec80 fffff880`02deaec1 : fffffa80`03cf7950 00000000`00000080 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`018b4410 : dxgkrnl!TdrResetFromTimeout+0x23
    fffff880`02e3ed00 fffff800`02d7b34a : 00000000`035ad093 fffffa80`038edb50 fffffa80`018abb30 fffffa80`038edb50 : dxgmms1!VidSchiWorkerThread+0x101
    fffff880`02e3ed40 fffff800`02acb946 : fffff880`009e8180 fffffa80`038edb50 fffff880`009f2f40 fffffa80`02ab36c0 : nt!PspSystemThreadStartup+0x5a
    fffff880`02e3ed80 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KiStartSystemThread+0x16
     
     
    STACK_COMMAND:  .bugcheck ; kb
     
    FOLLOWUP_IP:
    nvlddmkm+9316c4
    fffff880`051f06c4 4055            push    rbp
     
    SYMBOL_NAME:  nvlddmkm+9316c4
     
    FOLLOWUP_NAME:  MachineOwner
     
    MODULE_NAME: nvlddmkm
     
    IMAGE_NAME:  nvlddmkm.sys
     
    DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP:  5116d804
     
    FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  X64_0x116_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys
     
    BUCKET_ID:  X64_0x116_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys
     
    Followup: MachineOwner
    ---------
    While trying to get some clues as to what's wrong I realised that the more recent minidumps were different. This has to do with the fact that I tried the Feed The Beast mod pack for MineCraft - but I haven't played this mod while the computer was fully functional, so I don't know whether it would work properly if I wasn't experiencing these problems. It might crash anyway. I can attach the Feed The Beast minidump if you're interested. But I think it's wise to focus on the ABOVE minidump (crashed while playing vanilla MineCraft)
     
  16. mikels12

    mikels12 Geek Trainee

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    Long Path Tool deals with long path files. It works well to copy or delete long path files.
     
  17. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    I don't know what any of that means.
     
  18. Big B

    Big B HWF Godfather

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    I would play with different driver versions that support your video card and also make sure that before doing all the work to pull the motherboard, check that all power connections on the motherboard are plugged in.
     
  19. TheAnd

    TheAnd Geek Trainee

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    I was not the one who bumped the thread. I have bought a new computer a long time ago.
     

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