Celeron Upgrade Advice - Please help.

Hey Everyone - Okay I have decided to hold of a few months untill buying a new laptop to replace my Tempremental Dell D600 (1.6 Centrino / 32Meg Video card / 512MB card.) In the meantime though, I would like to use something a little more powerful than my current setup to play a few games (TW2006 / TW2007; NFS; C&C, AOE3, HL2, BF2, etc.) Luckily I have been given an older desktop system to use - This is what it is a 2002 HP Pavillion running a (I think it is a 1.4 ghz) Celeron Processor; 256MB Ram; onboard 64MB videocard; 40GBHD + 2 external 80GB USB 2.0 HDs and a Dell 17" LCD monitor. As far as I can see in order to run the games I have mentioned - I need to upgrade only 2 componenets over here - the video memory and RAM. Considering I am going to buy a notebook post Christmas - I don't want to spend too much and my budget is between $100 - $150 for the entire upgrade. I am fairly certain that this desktop does not have a PCI Express Slot so I think I would need an AGP card. After doing some reserach on Newegg.com; I have come across a Saphire ATI 9600XT 4X/8X AGP with 256MB ram for $63.00 - $10.00 Rebate. 1 Gig for Kingston Value Ram for $85.00. So that brings the total to about $138 which is within my budget. So the questions are as follows and as always I would really appreciate your inputs and suggestions.

1. Will the above video card and ram be compatible with the celeron system?

2. Is there a website that can check my computers Specs out by running some software and figure out what exactly I can upgrage and give product recommendations?

3. Am I upgrading too much or upgrading the wrong components; i.e. The Celeron processor will bottleneck the performance and speed of the AGP and extra Ram. If so, should I downgrade to a 128MB video card and 512MB ram? Or should I look to upgrade the motherboard/CPU?

4. Can you recommend any cards similar in performance/price to the 9600XT? I would'nt mind spending a little more money - for eg. X1300 and GeForce 6600 cards are $85 if I can see the added performance.

5. Is there a good indepth upgrade FAQ or guide that you could recommend?

Thanks Once again!

Vcash13

 

Find out what speed Celeron it has, because that's going to really make a difference of if you can slap in something faster. You should be able to look up the model of your system on HP's website, and last I looked, they'd be able to give you a pretty good description of what you have. That'd be the most accurate.

That system came out long before PCI express was available, so it doesn't have that. It probably does have AGP, but I'd look before you get a card.

However, in gaming, that's not going to make as much of a difference as more RAM and a faster video card. The Radeon 9600XT is comparable to the GeForce Ti4600. I'd imagine you'd probably find similar performance with the GeForce 6200 or 7300. The 6600 or 6600GT will be a nice card.
Memory on a video card is a very poor way to determine if it's a good card or not. A Geforce 6200 might have 512MB of RAM, but it's still going to be eaten for lunch by a GeForce 7600GT with only 256MB. Even the 6600GT will blow past it, and those typically come with 128MB. The key is the number of pipelines in the graphics chip, and the higher-end cards have progressively more of them than lower-end ones.

On the RAM: Kingston is a great choice. I would verify what specific type of RAM you have. In all likelyhood, it's going to be SDRAM or DDR. It probably is DDR, but, again, check that out before you buy.

 

Thanks Big_B - I will check out the specs on HPs website to see what I have and post the details for further recommendations.

 

Hi Big_B - I have not opened up the case yet but I found some information in HP website about the computer - It is a Pavillion 554Y with 2.0Ghz Celeron Processor with 256MB of Ram. The Video adapter is an Intel 82845 with 64MB of video Memory. The motherboard is a Trigem Intel 845GL. The Socket Type is mPGA478 which supports Pentium 4s (Willamette) and Celeron (Northwood). It has a 400Mhz FSB. It supports upto 2GB of Memory. Unfortunatley it states that there is no AGP connector. The case form factor is a uATX.

Here is a picture of the Exact Motherboard -

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&dlc=&product=299504&docname=bph07813

With this information - What do you think is my best option to upgrade - I assume an external card is not possible on this mobo and I need to get a Mobo that can support a graphics card and hopefully the same processor or maybe another processor. Again, I am trying to keep this upgrade closest to $150 dollars. Your recommendations would be very helpful. Thanks.

 

Yeah, dont buy an AGP card without checking out to see if you actually have the slot. My stupid eMachines case, you know the little stickers that say all the "cool features", said I have blah, blah, blah AGP, but it wasn't an AGP slot they were talking about, turns out my desktop doesn't have an AGP or PCI-E slot. I ordered an AGP card and had to return it and get a PCI.:doh: :doh:



And PCI cards absolutely suck.....

 

Yeah, if you're looking to make this a gaming box, you're not going to find a PCI video card that's able to really play Quake 4 past 640x480. Visiontek has some Radeon X1300 in PCI format, but that's around $120 for a PCI version. Outside of that, you're looking at a Radeon 9250 or GeForceFX 5200, both of which run around $30-50, depending on the features. Unfortunately, some games like BF2, Quake 4, FEAR, etc. are going to eat your options alive. HL2 is much more forgiving. However, in the long run, if you're really looking to make a gaming rig, you're a lot better off to start from the ground up. The options available are better, but I don't think they're enough to give you an enjoyable gaming experience.

Now, you could get another motherboard (in microATX formfactor, if you're keeping the case) with AGP. You'll be looking at $30-50 for a motherboard with AGP that would still support your CPU. You could go PCIe, but those boards are starting out at over $100...and at that point, you'd be better off just to hold your money and save for something a little more modern.

 

Thanks Big_B -- I plan to get a new gaming laptop (Dell E1705 / M1710) post Christmas so I just need something to hold me over till then. I will most probably be only playing 3 to 4 games max. like Tiger Woods 2007, HL2, CS: Source and maybe BF2 etc. The way I look at it is that anything is better than my D600 with the ATI 9000 Pro 32MB card and Centrino Processor. Thats why I am looking to spend about $150 give or take a few.

As of now I have one of two options - Please help me decide on which route to go and which combination will give me the most performance for the buck.

Option 1:
1. XFX Geforce FX5200 256MB 128-bit DDR PCI Video Card - $63.00
or SAPPHIRE Radeon 9250 256MB 128-bit DDR PCI Video Card - $46.99

2. Kingston HyperX 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory - $65
or Kingston ValueRAM 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) - $54.99

3. Intel Pentium 4 2.8B Northwood 2.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache Socket 478 Processor - $70 (I could not find any Willamette P4 Processors - Will the Northwood P4 be compatible?)

Total: Between $172 - $198 depending on exact options.

Option 2.
1. Keep the Existing Processor - Celeron Northwood 2.0Ghz

2. ECS 661GX-M 1.0B Socket 478 SiS 661GX Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - $39.99 (It has an AGP Slot + 400Mhz FSB but says it only supports Intel Pentium 4 Prescott/Celeron) - If this is the wrong mobo for the existing Celeron - Could someone please post a model/make I should look at?

3. Kingston HyperX 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory - $65
or Kingston ValueRAM 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) - $108.00

4. POWERCOLOR Radeon X700 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X 8 Pixels - $95.00
Or eVGA Geforce 6600GT 128MB 128-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X - $96.00
Or SAPPHIRE Radeon 9600XT 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card - $53

Total: Between $158 - $243 Depending on options.

Option 3
A combination of the above two and/or your suggestions for a different setup.

Also, With any of these changes will I need a bigger power supply or additional components or whatever is in the HP will Suffice. Again, Trying to keep this as close to the $150 amount as I can but I am flexible with this and all prices are off Newegg so If I browse around I could probably get 10 - 15% cheaper prices. I look forward to your suggestions! Thanks.

 

Option 2 would be the best choice.
The motherboard isn't a speed demon, and the SiS chipset isn't the top performer, but in the short term, it'd do the job just fine. You'd also be able to swipe the current RAM from that motherboard you're using now and pop it in the new motherboard. Kingston's HyperX stuff is a high-performance RAM line. If you're not going to overclock this system, you're just as well off to save a few bucks and go with their ValueRAM. If you don't play BF2 alot, you can probably get by with 512MB, but if you play it a lot, then having 1GB is going to make one helluva difference.
For the video cards, if you're looking to stay as cheap as possible, go with the Radeon 9600XT. However, if you go for a bigger punch, the 6600GT out-performs the X700. While it does have more RAM onboard, the 6600GT still has the power to negate this fact. If you can find an X700 for around $75, go for it if you want to shave off some money, but not when it's within a $1 of a noticeably better-performing card.

 

Hey Big_B

Okay - This is what I am doing for now:
1. Ordering a BFG GeForce FX 5500 PCI 256MB card from Compusa for $50.00 (After $50.00 Mfgr Rebate)

2. Upgrading Ram by 512MB to 640MB - $60.00

3. Snapping these two components in - running it and if the games work to where I like them - No more upgrade otherwise time for the P4.

Lastly - Can I see some benchmark results for the FX5500 anywhere or read any reviews or hear your experiences before I pick it up from Compusa? BFG also makes a FX 6200 with 128 MB ram Lastly - Can I see some benchmark results for the FX5500 anywhere or read any reviews or hear your experiences before I pick it up from Compusa? BFG also makes a FX 6200 with 128 MB - But its $100 more than the 5500 - Is it really worth the extra performance:

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I downloaded CPU-Z and this is the information I get

Processor: Celeron
Codename: Northwood
Core Speed: 1999Mhz
Brand ID: 10
Package: Socket 478 mPGA
Rated FSB: 400Mhz

Mainboard: Northwood/Brookdale - G Va
Chipset: Intel i845GL

My question is what P4s will be compatible with this socket/mainboard? Do I need to look for a P4 that is Northbridge and supports 400Mhz FSB or can I get something that supports a higher FSB? Thanks

 

Just to let you know, I have the 3D Fuzion FX 5500 and you will not be able to play BF2, it will look like a slideshow no matter what settings you have it on. And you'll kinda be able to play CS:S but you'll max out at about 12fps, which is still barely playable. If you plan on playing those, you should invest in the higher end card. But, I can still play CoD2 and HL2 w/fps around 20-30.

 

The 6200 is going to be roughly comparable to the 5700, so while's it's better, BF2 will still crawl.

 

Hey Lonestar / Big_B

So I guess BF2 is out of the window for sure. I just went on Amazon and orderd the following games -

1. Call of Duty - Game of the Year Edition
2. NFS: Most Wanted
3. Far Cry
4. HL2: Episode One

I think these and buying COD Expansion, COD 2 and Tiger Woods 2007 will be all my game purchases for the year untill I buy a new machine early next year. Should I cancel my order on any of these because they will not run or run really crappy? I own HL2 now and I have played it on my Dell D600 Centrino with ATI 9000PRO 64MB Card (Till it fried and was replaced by a 32MB card and then it was pointless playing HL2) and 512MB RAM - While I was not happy with the performance; I can say that it wasn't that bad either. In terms of performance increase - what can I expect from the current setup and BFG FX5500 video card? - 25%? 50%? Less or More? Thanks.

P.S. What do you think is the best PCI Video card out there?

 

I'm not sure, but I dont belive FarCry will work very well on there either, that game is pretty taxing on low-end systems. All the others should work fine. To tell you the absolute truth, the 5500 isnt that much better than the onboard video I had, maybe 10%. Try for a better card than the 5500.
I've even tried Riva Tuner to push out a little more Mhz but it froze if I went any higher than stock.

 

What would you recommend is a better PCI card than the 5500? Visiontek 1300? Thanks.

 

Well, the Visiontek Radeon X1300Pro in PCI would be your best bet. However, like I mentioned earlier, it's going to run around $120 or more. The X1300Pro will blow anything else in your options away, but do know that the PCI bus is highly limiting. That's why you don't see any high-end cards coming out in PCI. It's like holding a NASCAR race on a two-way street.

 

Okay - So I see that Compusa carries the Visiontek X1300 Radeon for $129. I dont see a pro version though. Is this one and the same or can you point me to a link for an online retailer. Thanks.

 

Yeah, that's it. So many designations of the same product family, even I get confused.

I didn't know it even existed until I saw this review.

 

Wow, i cant believe that it maxed out at 58fps in Oblivion. I couldn't get my card to do 5fps even indoors. I never even made to an outdoor scene. Oblivion with my card looks like a PowerPoint presentation.

I find it hard to beleive those frame rates with any PCI card.

 

Okay Guys - I bought the FX 5500 with the plan in mind to return it if it didnt play games up to my expectations - Anyway long story short - this solution did not work and I am returning this card - but before I installed this graphics card, the manual recommended I delete my graphics card drivers / software. Unfortunatley I did this and now nothing wil come up on monitor! The PC starts up fine but there is display period! Please help me get this machine back to its original state so I can use it a little bit. I can't seem to find the XP Install CD so I can't even boot from CD and do a system recovery. Thanks!

P.S. - I learnt my lesson with this difficult upgrade nonsense - I am going to pick up a used PC of Ebay or buy a cheap Core Duo or something off newegg or tiger direct.

 

Okay Computer has been fixed - and I am just going to sell this for whatever I can get and pick up a newer system. It's a liitle more money but atleast its less hassle. How does this sound for a new computer -

1. Intel Pentium D 840 3.2 Dual Core Processor
2. ABIT SG-80DC Sis Socket 775 MicroATX Motherboard
3. Powerup Black ATX Mid-Tower Case with 400Watt PS
4. Ultra 512MD PC3200 DDR 400Mhz Memory
5. Intel Socket 775 CPU Cooling FAN

The above is a part of a barebones kit for $259.99 after rebate from Tiger Direct.I can add a Seagate 250GB 7200 RPM drive for $65.00 and a Graphics card - ATI X1600 Pro PCIexpress for about $149.99 and an additional 512MB of Ram for $60. IS this a good system for about $520? I already have a monitor / Key board and mouse and Speakers / Am I missing anything for this build - Should I add something else or change something? If I extend my budget to $600, can you recommend a better graphics card or processor? Thanks.