Building a new PC...group effort! =)

Guess what? Yep, you guessed it. I have more questions for you!

I was just doing more research on the nForce2 chipset and was wondering what the differences are between the different types of nForce2 chipsets are. Here are some unfimiliar terms:

- MCP-T
- MCP
- SPP
- IGP

I'm assuming these are different "types" of nForce2 chipsets? Could you tell me what they are and what the differences are? If there are more "types" you know of, please add them to the list.

 

I came across an interesting statement:


"Coupling the nForce2 SPP with the nForce2 MCP-T you get the top of the line motherboard. Throw in a Ti 4600 video card and you have the best PC on the market (all with NVIDIA chipsets, ironically)."

This statement, to me, indicates that this would be the answer to my previous question; it's what I need for the best possible motherboard.

Shortly after drawing the above conclusion, I stumbled upon this paragraph:

"NVIDIA has estimated that we should be seeing top of the line motherboards using the nForce2 SPP and MCP-T to be positioned “well-below” the $100 range. For their integrated IGP solution, NVIDIA is also claiming to be able to sell boards for the $100 price range. If NVIDIA can do this, they would be one of the best-priced motherboard chipsets available."

This paragraph, to me, indicates that the IGP (whatever that is), is the better solution.

So which is it? It's clear now, that I must obtain a clearer understanding of what the IGP, SPP, MCP-T solutions are.

I realize I've posted three times already, each post containing its own set of questions. Please respond to them in order to prevent any chance of confusion and/or skipping requested information.

Just post what you know, and think. Thanks!

 

Ram-wise the nForce 2 runs best with dual sticks of ram so you'll have no problems with 2 sticks of DDR 333 or 400.

As for what I consider the best board I've probably said it way to many times on these forums but the Asus A7N8X Deluxe . If you look at pretty much all the reviews this is the card the other nForce 2 cards are compared to, and it offers Soundstorm, Dual Lan, Firewire, USB 2.0 onboard so anyone should have a connection for any device you can think of.

 

I understand that the PC3500, PC3200, etc... is the speed of the memory.

I understand that the 512RAM, 256RAM, etc... is the amount of memory.

I don't know what the DDR 333, DDR 400, etc... is...

What is it? Please explain. What does it do, and what is the best? What would you recommend? Does the best DDR work with the motherboard you recommend?

If I do go with that motherboard, what about cooling? I read that the motherboard limits your cooling methods. What are your thoughts regarding this??

 

I checked the asus A7N8X deluxe, which uses the combination of SPP and MCP-T, asus is the most notorious mainboard company there is so you cannot go wrong with them I think. MCP I believe is when the chipset(nforce2) has integrated sound, MCP-T must be a level higher than MCP but I do not know what it means exactly. I know that MCP-T is the northbridge which gives you features like ddr400, serial ata, and SPP is the southbridge giving you integrated sound, agp8x and usb 2.0. the northbridge and the southbridge together are the two parts of the chipset. much like the earth is divised in two hemisphere(now this is just me talking).

It has plenty of things like 6 channel audio, 2 lan ports, agp8x, dual channel for ddr400(pc3200) (this means you have to use memory in pair to benefit the potential speed, so it is better to have 2 sticks of 256mb instead of having one of 512mb) it has serial ata (relative to hard drives, ata133 means that the hard drive can potentially transfer data at a rate of 133mb/s, serial ata would be 150mb/s), serial ata I believe is in relation with raid caopability, and I believe that raid is more of a security feature than a performance feature, although I might be wriong on that. But, I used ata66 a long time (66mb/s, also called udma mode 4) and then "upgraded" to ata100(100mb/s or udma mode 5, all you need really is a cable that is able to benefit the larger bandwith, which is provided with each and every retail mainboard you buy)and I did not see any change in performance, keep in mind that this is only a potential limit of transfer of 100mb/s and that it does not transfer at this rate most of the time. it also has 2 firewire IEEE1394 ports, which is like usb 1.1 but faster(used to plug a mouse, a keyboard, or more cleverly used to plug an external cd or dvd drive, usb is faster than a serial port which is what keyboard used to use, but it doesn'T change anything if you plug in a keyboard or a mouse, your mosue wont be faster, its irrelevant but is relevant if you use like i said external drives like cd, dvd, hard drive, etc.) it has 6 usb 2.0 ports, which is even faster than firewire, I believe it is 40 times faster(450mb/s I think than usb 1.1 (4 ports on the back panel, and headers for two other ports for a total of 6) it also has asus' own cpu overheating protection, which is good to have knowing that heating and amd are good friends

there is a table for ddr400 support so I suggest that you buy memory indicated on this table to be sure it will be compatible with the board, if you use ddr333 or lower I believe you can use any brands but not for ddr400, this issue is common for a lot of mainboards

asus makes the A7N8X deluxe and the A7N8X with the nforce2 chipset, the deluxe one has obviously more features, performance is the same between the two.

those boards are also ready to use the athlon xp 2800+ (@333 fsb) thoroughbred , updating the bios will probably give you
the ability to use the newer cpus like the 3000+.

as for the 128-bit controller, that is dual-channel ddr. If it works the same way as a fsb, 128 bit can be related to the number of lanes on a highway, a highway that would contain 128 lanes would permit twice as much cars to pass at any given time than a highway with 64 lanes. I assume that "normal" ddr technology uses a 64 bit controller, dual channel ddr uses a 128 bt controller. so with pc3200 memory, you normally are able to transfer 3200mb/s of data(or 3.2 gb/s), but with dual channel, you can transfer 6.4gb/s.

a maximum of 3gb of memory means what it means really ! if you have 3 slots of memory, then the max you can use would be 3 sticks of 1gb each.

now I don't know where you read that a ti4600 with a nforce2 chipset combining the spp and mcp-t would be the top of the line choice, but if you read this from nvidias site I wouldn't totally take it for granted as it is obvious they will preach for their products, of course, when using all nvidia products, you can be sure there will be no compatibility issues, but syngod did say that this asus board is one of the boards that can use the ati 9700 pro right off the bat and the ati card is considered the best performer between the two so, up to you to decide !

The msi k7n2 looks to have about the same features but does not have a cpu overheating protection or dual lan, but they have live update which makes it easier to upgrade the bios or anything else on the mainboard, I wouldn'T orient my choice based ONLY on that though as it is already easy to upgrade the bios the conventional way, msi is another notorious company, asus will be a better performer though, based on reviews on other boards from these two companies.msi uses MCP2, without the -T , you still egt the sound, so I really don'T know what more the -T gives you

as for the abit nf7-s, they are known to be the most overclockable boards, but you do not intend to do it so...
it uses the MCP2-T, a maximum of 2gb of memory with ddr400 and 3gb with lower speeds, the other companies offers 3gb for every speed.again, no dual lan.

Basically, those three boards are the same, they are 3 notorious companies, but the asus does have more features than the other 2, not a lot more but still.each has their own "specialty", asus is the heating protection, msi is the live update, abit is the softmenu which I think gives you easy access to overclocking options.

looks like syngod is "in love" p) with the asus one and he surely knows more than I do on the topic so I think you can trust him easily on his affirmations.

ddr333 is another way to say pc2700, ddr400 is another way to say pc3200, ddr266 is pc2100(the 266 means 266 mhz as the 2100 means 2100 mb/s of transdfer rate, ddr333 and pc2700 is the exact same time, they are synonyms)

well you wouldn'T believe how much time I put on this reply, so you better like it

 

Ughh guess it's best not tp post when your dead tired. Got the MCP-T definition wrong.

Anyways here's a link that should tell you about the different nforce 2 revisions and what each offers.

 

The SPP and IGP are pretty much equal, except the IGP has integrated sound. The MCP is basically the same one that came with the original nForce and the MCP-T has the better sound and some newer feature versions of some standards.

For a detailed explaination, do follow Syngod's link. That will get more technical than I just did.

For the DDR explainations:
PC1600=DDR200
PC2100=DDR266
PC2700=DDR333
PC3200=DDR400
PC3500=DDR433

 

Big B you mean to say IGP is integrated graphics instead? .

 

Yeah...I was a bit tired when I typed that.

 

Thank you Harrack!!!!! I love those long posts! You should have edited it too... hahaha, just kidding harrack. It was very helpful. Thank you. In fact, I have some more questions for you now.


Which motherboard spec is it that you use to determine whcih DDR memory you can use? Is it the fsb? If the fsb of the motherboards in questions is only 333, then how can they use DDR400? ---What is the key factor in the motherboard which determines what DDR memory can be used?


"there is a table for ddr400 support so I suggest that you buy memory indicated on this table to be sure it will be compatible with the board, if you use ddr333 or lower I believe you can use any brands but not for ddr400, this issue is common for a lot of mainboards" --Harrack

Will two sticks of Corsair 512RAM PC3200/DDR400 memory work with the Asus A7N8X Deluxe?


"now I don't know where you read that a ti4600 with a nforce2 chipset combining the spp and mcp-t would be the top of the line choice, but if you read this from nvidias site I wouldn't totally take it for granted as it is obvious they will preach for their products, of course, when using all nvidia products, you can be sure there will be no compatibility issues, but syngod did say that this asus board is one of the boards that can use the ati 9700 pro right off the bat and the ati card is considered the best performer between the two so, up to you to decide !" --Harrack

I was convinced by someone else to just wait and update my video card in a few months when some newer ones come out. The Radeon 9700 Pro isn't a HUGE improvement from the GeForce4 Ti 4600, so I'll just wait a few months until there are even newer video cards released.


Lets narrow down my selection of motherboards. Please confirm the (10) below statements:

TRUE or FALSE

1) The fastest memory any motherboard on the market can use without being overclocked is PC3200 or DDR400.

2) The fastest AMD processor on the market is the AMD Athlon 2800+. (The AMD 3000+ has not yet been released.)

3) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe is one of the top motherboards on the market.

4) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe comes with the nForce2 chipset and the SPP/MCP-T combination.

5) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe comes with SoundStorm sound card, (recommended over the Audigy 2 Platinum sound card.)

6) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe does have room for more than sufficient cooling.

7) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe can use the fastest AMD Athlon processor(s). (Whether its the 2800+ or the 3000+)

8) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe has 128-bit controller, which is dual-channel DDR.

9) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe can use all the other hardware discussed towards the start of this thread.

10) The Asus A7N8X Deluxe will not be obsolete within the next 3-4 years; it will be able to handle hardware upgrades for at least that peroid of time.



Thanks again for all your responses.

 

what tells you which is the maximum speed of the memory you can use is the chipset of the mainboard, for instance, via's kt400 chipset can use ddr400, the kt333 ddr333 and so on.

I believe every nforce2 chipsets can use ddr400, but you need it combines with the 128bit controller in order to have dual channel ddr.

right now I can't go on asus' website, I really don'T know why but I have seen corsair on that table, I just don't know which type of memory exactly can be used, but you will be able to use pc3200(ddr400)memory whether it's 128mb or 512mb, the table will provide you with the model # of the memory, I'll get back to you on that

1. No. You can use faster memory but it won'T be used at its full potential. for instance my fsb is 266 but I have pc2700(ddr333) memory, I can run it at 166 mhz but it does not give me that much of an edge over pc2100(ddr266). keep in mind asus only garantees support for ddr400 (provided you use the types included on the table). to use faster memory you need a board that supports it, supporting it does not mean it will use it at tis full potential, it only means it will work.

2. I am not sure about that but the 2800+ either way is in the very high end of the market and uses the thoroughbred B core and 333fsb which is the latest amd technology.

3. According to what syngod said and for what you want to use, yes. It is one of the latest. I would choose it between the three options that big b and syngod gave you.

4. that is it.

5. yes it comes with it. the SPP gives you integrated sound

6. I will get back to you on that. I have a soltek 75drv5-c which is "old" (released in march 2002) and which has 5 headers for fans, I would think asus would provide its newer boards with at least as many headers, although I am not sure, when i can go on the site I'll check it out.

7. right now it comes right off the bat with support for the 2800+, when the 3000+ is released, asus will probably upload a bios upgrade on their site allowing you to use it.

8. yes it has dual channel ddr

9. well im not sure since I don'T know exactly what hardware you talked about(Idon'T remember it), but you talked about a 10k rpm wd sata hard drive, this board will support it, it has the latest usb technology(usb 2.0), the latest agp technology (8x) but it has every feature you would wanna have. I don'T see what more you could ask from a board.

10. you cannot predict that, in 6 months , something more performant than what you have will be released on the market, this is the way it goes. computer industry moves really really fast, in 3-4 years amd will have probably released a new type of cpu which your board won'T be able to handle but you just cannot do anything about it, that'S the way it goes. 10 years ago, the fastest cpu was a intel 486 dx/2 66 (66mhz, maybe the dx/4 100 (100 mhz)) (right now it is 3000 mhz, the fastest memory was 30-pin (right now it is 184-pin). video cards with 2mb on it just didn't exist yet, there were no integrated controllers on the mainboards, absolutely no jumperless features, extra big hard drives were 512mb(now the max is 200 000 mb). heck ! cooling was not even a topic of discussion, heatsinks were not even there, you could run your cpu without any heatsink or fans, power supplies were not a topic of discussion either. You could run anything with any video card ! there were no graphic interface for the OS (well there was win 3.11 but.... those who know what it is know it was pretty much useless) all you had is a black screen with a cursor, you had to type every command yourself. 5 years ago the fastest cpus I think were the pII 400mhz, look at them now ! my point is you cannot keep up with the improvements, it is just too expensive, you will have the best system right now, but in one year, your system will still be pretty good, but not the best.
but I believe your board will be able to handle new types of hardware , like agp8x which is useless right now because no game uses it but I believe that pretty soon, newer games will be created in order to use the agp 8x to its full potential.
Either way, the asus a7n8x deluxe has every possible feature there is.

 

10)

There's nothing you can do to avoid it. 3-4 years is a long way away. I know you want to buy something and be done with it, but that's just not the way the market works. It's impossible to build a PC now and expect it to not be obsolete in 2 or more years.
It will be upgradeable. To what extent, I don't know. I don't know enough to predict how things will go.

Right now, people are awaiting Doom 3 as the next game to put the real smack down on hardware. I'd say if your system can do that fine, you should be okay.

I believe that you're still okay with the Barton-based Athlons coming out. AMD isn't going to drop them when the Hammer hits. They'll slowly fade them out over a span of time. If it's like the K-6, you may have about 2-years left at least with the Socket A platform for some upgradeability. This is providing that Asus provides BIOS updates as necessary to keep your system recognizing the latest and greatest Socket A CPU's.

How long the AGP 8x standard lasts, I'm not sure, but I would say that since it's a new standard, you should be okay.

 

I wouldn't guarantee future upgradability to newer processors for any new board, and especially AMD now that they'll have the Athlon 64 coming whenever they decide to release it. I think it's slated for summer or the end of the year, although with how many times it's been pushed back who knows when it will ship.

Since technology doubles every 18 months, in 4-5 years your system is going to be a low-mid range pc if you build a top of the line system now. But with more and more reliance on the video card I think if you upgrade half-way through you should be fine on running 99% of stuff in the next 4-5 years.

 

There are 3 fan connectors on the asus a7n8x deluxe

the only corsair memory the board can use is :

CMX512-3200C 2XMS3202 v1.1 , CL2.5

so if you use two 512mb sticks of this memory it will work.

512mb is written, I would assume you can also use 256mb or 128mb sticks but I think you're gonna use 512mb sticks so this is not an issue.

 

Does this mean: two sticks of Corsair XMS PC3200 512RAM?
"CMX512-3200C 2XMS3202 v1.1 , CL2.5"


So the Asus only has room for 3 fans compared to your current board which uses 5 fans? I'll have to figure out a secondary method of cooling. I want to keep my PC as cool as possible at all times. If I have to resort to water cooling, will there be room for that? I already have some Arctic Grease/Silver on the menu. I honestly believe the lower the constant temperature of your PC, generally, the longer it lasts.

I'm not quite as concerned with keeping my PC at the top as I am keeping it fully fuctional. I realize it won't be the best there is for very long. I was more or less wanting to know whether or not it would still "work" 3-4 years from now. In any case, the good news is that motherboards are not very expensive, and can be easily replaced when necessary.

If you say this PC will have no problems running Doom 3 then I'm confident it will be sufficient to run whatever games are released within at least the next 2 years. The software/gaming industry doesn't seem to grow as quickly as the hardware industry. Heck, some games are still being made with only 2D graphics... The average PC game is still 128-256 memory recommended.


Would anyone recommend I wait for the 64bit AMD processor to be released? How much would you guess that will cost? Do you think Intel will beet AMD to the punch?

 

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43837#43837

Someone at the above forum posted this:

"With regards to the fastest ram available without overclocking, surely the fastest ram would be PC2700, given that the fastest AMD processor only runs on a 333mhz FSB.

Then, of course, you get into the realms of running the FSB and memory asynchronously. In that case, you can run your memory at its stated maximum irrespective of what your cpu is doing - overclocked or not."

Does this person know what he's talking about? So is it PC3200 or PC2700? =)

...stop confusing me!!!!! AHHH!!! =)

 

This is my third post in a row, so don't skip the two before this one =)

I was just wondering what the maximum "healthy" temperature of your PC should be (or mine.) I want to keep my PC as cool as possible, but I feel like I should have a focus point to start with. What is the highest temperature my PC can be before it's in any kind of short-term or long-term danger?

 

What the guy at nForcersHQ is saying is that the nForce runs the FSB and memory at the same speed of 333MHz. You can run the memory faster than the FSB at 400MHz, without overclocking it, depending on what FSB/Memory ratio you use in BIOS.

That's the way you can take advantage of the 400MHz/PC3200 stuff w/o overclocking.

The Athlon 64 keeps getting pushed back. You could be waiting till summer at the earliest, and quite possibly even later. There is always something bigger and better around the corner. If you wait for that, you'll always be waiting.

The CPU temp shouldn't be going much past 50*C. If it's hitting 60*C, especially at idle, look into better cooling. The stock athlon cooler will do the job to keep it from overheating, but there are better solutions out there. Currently, the best heatsink out there is the ThermalRight SLK-800. It does run around $40 without a fan. It can use 80mm fans so you can have a lot of air movement without a super high noise. I would at least consider something like that while you're at it.

 

So after I buy the motherboard and memory I'll have to do something in the BIOS before I can run at DDR400 speeds?

You'll have to explain how to do that for me...

 

You'll have to have the memory capable of 400MHz before doing this.

I don't know what motherboard you'll end up getting, but there should be some type of ratio for the FrontSideBus:Memory setting.
Running the memory synchronously might be something like 1:1 or maybe 333MHz:333MHz; asynch might be something like 4:5 or 333MHz:400MHz. Not every motherboard has the exact same layout or wording as others, even if they use the same BIOS version, AwardBIOS 6 is one of the most common out there.