few questions about cpu and memory upgrade

[violetblueskies]

I have an e-machine T3990 which stocks:
celeron D 335 (2.8ghz 256 533) SL7NW
256mb DDR333 PC2700
intel 865GV chipset
motherboard: D865GVHZ - AA C92991-101 http://www.intel.com/support/motherboar ... 027146.htm
motherboard supported processors http://www.intel.com/support/motherboar ... 026964.htm



I will need to be upgrading this PC to its maximum potential for business use.
I know it doesn't seem worth upgrading, but my step-dad loves this computer and would like to stay with it.
I have a few questions about upgrading the CPU and memory.

I was researching on CPU's and found 2 that I was interested in. One was the Northwood 478 3.4 512 800 (SL793) and the Prescott 478 3.4 1M 800 (SL7PP).
I tried looking on e-machine's support area only to find nothing so I checked out intel's support page and found the links above.
Looking at the supported processor's it seems the Northwood is supported by all board revisions whereas the Prescott I wasn't sure about.
I just went ahead and purchased the Northwood off ebay for $30 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT
I was reading that the difference is minuscule and the Prescott was better used in overclocking applications. Northwood was said to run much cooler than Prescott.
I wanted to make sure this CPU would be okay for this. The motherboard supported processor's chart says my motherboard needs P13 or greater BIOS rev. except I couldn't find any BIOS downloads in the emachine support section.

With the CPU upgrade, I'm planning to upgrade the PSU from the stock 300W to a 500W just so you guys know.
I'm also going to put in a WD 150gb raptor SATA drive.
The next question was about memory. This is what's said in the intel tech product specifications manual...

The Desktop Board D865GVHZ has two DIMM sockets and supports the following memory
features:
• 2.6 V (only) 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMMs with gold-plated contacts
• Unbuffered, single-sided or double-sided DIMMs with the following restriction:
Double-sided DIMMS with x16 organization are not supported.
• 2 GB maximum total system memory.
• Minimum total system memory: 64 MB
• Non-ECC DIMMs
• Serial Presence Detect
• DDR400, DDR333, and DDR266 SDRAM DIMMs

What I don't get is how it says "Double-sided DIMMS with x16 organization are not supported."
Don't all memory have 8 chips on both sides especially if they are 1gb sticks? or am I understanding this wrong?
I had in mind to purchase this item from ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/kingston-hyperx-ddr ... 35b1a6da7c
Specs to this item: http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3200A_1g.pdf
I was wondering if this would be compatible? Or are there any other recommendations?
I'm trying to get as cheap as possible but stay with quality RAM.

In the intel tech manual it says in the notes:

To be fully compliant with all applicable DDR SDRAM memory specifications, the board should be
populated with DIMMs that support the Serial Presence Detect (SPD) data structure. This allows
the BIOS to read the SPD data and program the chipset to accurately configure memory settings
for optimum performance. If non-SPD memory is installed, the BIOS will attempt to correctly
configure the memory settings, but performance and reliability may be impacted or the DIMMs
may not function under the determined frequency.

I don't know much about memory timing or SPD.
I would like someone to tell me if the kingston will be okay or any other recommendations with price in mind.
I haven't purchased the memory yet so it would be nice if I could get a quick response on just the memory if anything.
Thanks in advance.

 

[cube_]

Here you'll find the download list for the BIOS revision, P25 which is the last and latest revision. Click the first download (...EB.EXE).
Side note - if you Intel to quickly and automatically check for all the latest updates for the board, go here and click "check your system for the latest updates".
The CPU should snug right in. Just make sure you get a thermal paste with that, as you need to apply a thin coat before installing the heatsink.

Simply put, RAM organization implies "density", or, the capacity or size of each DRAM unit on a DIMM. Density is measured in Megabits (Mb) when referring to DRAM units (each Black Block on a stick of RAM is where DRAM is contained), and Megabytes (MB) when referring to the entire to an entire DIMM module (entire stick of memory). Understand so far? Good, because it's gonna get more complicated (mind you, i'm learning along with you).
Now, lets take a 256 MB 16X16 DIMM stick, which has 16 DRAM chips (black blocks), and each chip is 16 MB in size. Now remember that the density of DRAM is measured in Megabits and not Megabytes. So since it's measured here in Megabytes (retailer preference), the density of each DRAM unit is found by multiplying 16 MB by 8 to get the value in bits rather than bytes (one byte is 8 bits). In this case, the density is 128 Mb (megabits). Compatibility is based on the density of each DRAM unit (in this case, 128Mb) and not on the DIMM as a whole (256MB). This was taken from this page. The user explained it really well. Intel lists those specifications just because they need to, so i wouldn't focus too much on it. What really matters is the speed and memory compatibility. Your motherboard can support up to 400MHz speeds and up to 2GB memory. But if you want to be 100% sure, i would try and find memory that has the exact specs such as how many DRAM units it has and so forth.

 

[violetblueskies]

First off I'd like to say thanks for taking the time to review my thread.
I appreciate you looking into the bios. Probably wasn't the hardest thing to find out there, but it was the least of my problems.
The CPU is on its way from china so it will be a little.

As far as memory, I read your explanation and I understood it, but I also don't if you know what I mean. heh
What I got from it was the density or what others are calling the "module configuration" a x b, b cannot be 16.
I ended up getting the Corsair Memory VS2GBKIT400C3 2 GB PC3200 400MHz 184-Pin DDR Desktop Memory Kit.
http://www.corsair.com/memory/industry-standard/ddr3/vs2gbkit400c3.html
Although the timing seems slower than other memory sticks out there, compatibility is greatly assured.
The last thing I need are sticks of RAM that wont work. Maybe on a aftermarket motherboard where timing can be manually entered.
But on a intel motherboard built with a emachine bios and its configuration limitations I was thinking I need to play it safe.
I tested out 1gb of memory against the 256mb and it was a great improvement. I can't wait to see the difference the CPU will make.

Just for kicks I'll tell you what else I found...
The onboard vid has been disabled and a PCI video card I believe its the PNY 128mb MX440.
Highest failure rate video card out there with their damn generic cheap china made fans... Yeah the fan was dead for some time.
The funny thing is the sticker on the toasted fan says "EVERCOOL Low noise. Long lifetime. HEAT DISSIPATION SPECIALIST" yeah right~
We've only had this video card for like 6 months. Well anyways I had to find a similar sized fan and make some modifications to fit it on the heatsink.
I ended up using a fan from a dead gamecube so that worked out fine.

My last step was to order a storage device. The stock 80gb barracuda is still in there and it works fine.
I know that over time hdd's performance can get worse with age and there are other faster storage devices now.
I was thinking why not SDD, but I'm reading up that compatibility is not so good with WinXP yeah?
My other direction was the raptor 1.5mb or the velociraptor 3.0mb, except the motherboard doesn't support SATA II.
Nevertheless, the increased RPM speed has its benefits. I found a 80gb raptor new on ebay for $50 not bad at all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200599832320&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Storage isn't really a priority as much as the performance will be.

Let me know what you think about the memory I chose and your ideas about storage device.
And again thanks for your help. I will keep y'all updated on the progress.

 

[cube_]

First off I'd like to say thanks for taking the time to review my thread.
I appreciate you looking into the bios. Probably wasn't the hardest thing to find out there, but it was the least of my problems.
The CPU is on its way from china so it will be a little.

You're welcome, and welcome to HWF!

As far as memory, I read your explanation and I understood it, but I also don't if you know what I mean. heh
What I got from it was the density or what others are calling the "module configuration" a x b, b cannot be 16.
I ended up getting the Corsair Memory VS2GBKIT400C3 2 GB PC3200 400MHz 184-Pin DDR Desktop Memory Kit.
http://www.corsair.com/memory/industry-standard/ddr3/vs2gbkit400c3.html
Although the timing seems slower than other memory sticks out there, compatibility is greatly assured.
The last thing I need are sticks of RAM that wont work. Maybe on a aftermarket motherboard where timing can be manually entered.
But on a intel motherboard built with a emachine bios and its configuration limitations I was thinking I need to play it safe.
I tested out 1gb of memory against the 256mb and it was a great improvement. I can't wait to see the difference the CPU will make.

Yes you understood correctly. I know it's confusing - i'm still having trouble with it. But anyway, i don't doubt that Memory will work. Like i said Intel is just abiding by regulations in displaying all those crazy digits. You should be fine. Does it come with a return policy?
Any upgrade from a Celeron is worth while. Celeron's are probably the worst of Intel's designs. I'd take a Pentium 3 over it!

Just for kicks I'll tell you what else I found...
The onboard vid has been disabled and a PCI video card I believe its the PNY 128mb MX440.
Highest failure rate video card out there with their damn generic cheap china made fans... Yeah the fan was dead for some time.
The funny thing is the sticker on the toasted fan says "EVERCOOL Low noise. Long lifetime. HEAT DISSIPATION SPECIALIST" yeah right~
We've only had this video card for like 6 months. Well anyways I had to find a similar sized fan and make some modifications to fit it on the heatsink.
I ended up using a fan from a dead gamecube so that worked out fine.

Lol, yeah, that's a GeForce 4. Wow, i didn't know those were still around. Smart thinking with the fan switch. You can do that with almost any fan on older VGA cards. Make sure the fan is sucking air from around the card and blowing the air onto the card.

My last step was to order a storage device. The stock 80gb barracuda is still in there and it works fine.
I know that over time hdd's performance can get worse with age and there are other faster storage devices now.
I was thinking why not SDD, but I'm reading up that compatibility is not so good with WinXP yeah?
My other direction was the raptor 1.5mb or the velociraptor 3.0mb, except the motherboard doesn't support SATA II.
Nevertheless, the increased RPM speed has its benefits. I found a 80gb raptor new on ebay for $50 not bad at all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200599832320&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Storage isn't really a priority as much as the performance will be.

Yep, SSD's are still not the best choice for O/S installations. I've never had one or tried it, but i see everywhere that people have stability issues even with the latest SSD's and latest O/S (namely, Windows 7). For now, SSD's should be used for storage.
Boy, i hope you have some good heat dissipation in that system. 10,000 RPM drives are quite hot! Notice how these drives come with there own heatsinks. Not that it's dangerous, but i would be safe and install that Raptor from ebay a slot away from the Barracuda you already have installed, just so they can both breath. You can go ahead and purchase a SATA 2 HDD, as it is backwards compatible with SATA 1 motherboards. The same applies if you had a SATA 2 motherboard with a SATA 1 HDD. However, you'll only be utilizing the speed that your motherboard can maximally allow. In your case, you would be utilizing SATA 1 speeds even though you'll have a SATA 2 HDD. So, you can comfortably but the SATA 2 drive if you want. It'll be to your advantage just so that if you want to switch the HDD over to a newer board with SATA 2, you'll use it to its full potential.

Hope i was helpful. Don't forget to get some thermal paste! You'll need it before installing the heatsink to the lovely Pentium 4. We wouldn't want it to fry now ;)

 

[violetblueskies]

Now that I think more about it, I think the video card is a 5 series instead of the MX440. Very similar cards though.
Anyways, I will be awaiting the parts so I'll update the progress. I decided on the raptor 80gb. To my surprise the price went down to $45.
If feasible, I may remove the floppy drive and install the hdd there. There is some space around the floppy area not tight at all.
Really, the raptor hdd's don't get that hot. I have one in my personal system and its just like any other drive imo.
But then again I do have 3 120 mm fans running so perhaps thats why haha.
With space below where the hdd was, I'm going to see if its possible to custom fit a 90 or 120mm fan for intake. There is already a smaller 90mm fan at the back of the case for exhaust.

 

[cube_]

Perfect. The cooler the better. Update me when the parts arrive. Would be interesting to know how you plan on installing the fan below the HDD. You could screw it in somehow. I was looking at some fans and found out that some companies make fans for 3.5" drive bays. Check this one out. Should fit right underneath the hard drive.

 

[violetblueskies]

Okay so just an update...
I got all the parts.

WD Raptor 80gb 10000rpm 1.5mb/sec sata1
Corsair Memory VS2GBKIT400C3 2 GB PC3200 400MHz 184-Pin DDR Desktop Memory Kit
Northwood 478 3.4 512 800 (SL793)

I did the BIOS update to P21 provided by Gateway.
I tried the link to your BIOS and it seem to fit, except when I tried it wouldn't update.
It turns out the vendor ID which is 15A for me and 86A for Intel was different probably due to it being an emachine BIOS on an Intel motherboard.

This one is from Intel:
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...ype=&OSVersion= OS Independent &DownloadType=
This one is from Gateway:
http://support.gateway.com/support/...vision: BF86510A.15A.0087.P21.EB&uid=30632142

Anyways, with the P21 BIOS update, I went ahead and installed the CPU and memory without any issues.
The PC runs much faster and smoother than before I have to say.
I also cloned the old HDD to the new and that's working fine too.

About the fan that I was going to install...
There is a hard drive catty that can detach from the computer that looks like this.

This basically sits vertical on the inside bottom front of the case where I was wanting to put the fan.
I decided to remove this and modify the case to fit the 120mm fan which looks like this.

I had to drill extra holes in the chasis for the air to vent into the case as well as holes to screw the fan to the case.
Now that this is done, I was going to install the hdd where the typical floppy drive would go only to find out the screw holes don't line up with the hdd drive <sigh>.
So now my next idea was to take that hdd caddy and vertically cut it in half. If you look at the top picture, you can see the blue line I drew on the caddy where I will be cutting.
With this cut and the HDD screwed on, I can then attach the caddy into the case where it can still screw in and the bottom of the case will catch it.
Although the HDD will be covering the fan in a way, it will be blowing on the top face of the HDD therefore keeping it cooler as well as allowing more air into the case to keep the computer cooler in general.

That picture to just give you an idea of how it will mount and look.
So anyways the technical stuff with parts compatibility is done.
I just need to get a tool maybe a dremel or something to cut the caddy in half.
I may take some pics of what it looks like afterwards.

 

[cube_]

Nice! Which Pentium 4 did you end up getting? And which close software did you use? I use Acronis Migrate Easy...
It's a bit hard to tell exactly how you plan on mounting it but i think i get the idea. You want to cut the caddy in half and mount it on to where the fan is?
As for cutting the caddy... i see my Dad cut metal with a plain hack saw. Sometimes with an electric saw also. But you'll have to lube it up with some WD-40 to do that.

 

[violetblueskies]

I got the P4 Northwood 478 3.4 512 800 (SL793).
As for clone software, I used Norton Ghost.
Not sure how I will be cutting the caddy.
I'm going to Home Depot to get some ideas and tools I need to do so.

 

[violetblueskies]

So I finally finished up the PC.
Everything seems to be working great and staying cool for that matter.
The hard drive was getting more on the hotter side, but now with the fan it stays real cool.
I had to use a hack saw to cut the caddy.
Here's a pic of the caddy cut, sanded down, and drive attached.

Then of coarse I screwed down the caddy to the chasis.
I had to bend some metal on the chasis to allow the caddy to snug fit into the case.

Then with all the cables attached, tied, and neatly tucked away here's the finishing product.

So I guess that is the end of this story.
It was a fun project and I appreciate the help along the way cube.

 

[cube_]

Sick man, it looks like a good accomplishment. I feel like doing the same thing now that summer is coming along...