knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolution.

[Swansen]

Yes, long tittle, but this isn't so much about any of those, i mean, nothing is really proven, and i don't know what i consider myself, i have a lot of ideas, but thats about it. Anyways, i don't know if like there is a group going around my area talking about how the world is only like a couple hundred years old or something, but there has been a lot of talk about it lately. On that, i don't believe you can fully understand anything, or form a good opinion if you only know part of the story. Like, my friend i was talking to the other day, hes read some of the bible and went to church as a kid, and is going into the medical field, so hes knowledgeable, but he didn't know the theory behind evolution, or how radio carbon dating is said to work, or the theory behind the big bang, or how we use various energy waves to look into space. Nor is he THAT versed in the bible, yet he is agnostic, and doesn't believe evolution could work, or believe that we can really "prove" anything. Its basically like this, you could be a mathematical genius, and there is a plan to build this large bridge, and the guy is like no, it won't work, it can't i don't believe it. Yet he won't look at the engineering, to see how its a possibility??? i just don't understand how people form opinions when they have a fraction of the information on a topic, its confusing. Like i explained radiocarbon dating to him, and i could see in his expression that he could tell how that could work, but then he was like no, blah blah.

 

[thomas234]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

Anyways, i don't know if like there is a group going around my area talking about how the world is only like a couple hundred years old or something,

:eek::confused::eek::doh::x:

oooooooook... We were taught the theory of evolution in Biology when I was 15. We were taught it as fact, although it was explained that some people don't agree with it.

In Physics, we were taught about the Big Bang, and how scientists believe it to be what happened.

What do they teach over there if this guy didn't know either of those?!

I think for a lot of people, God is a simple answer as to why were are here. In the same way that some people might think computers are magic, because they don't understand how they work.

That post probably doesn't make sense, but oh well :D

 

[zeus]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

We didnt get taught about the big bang or evolution when I was in school. I remember being surprised to learn that we didnt have to learn about terminal velocities in school either. But they tell you about how great newton was! Nor calculus.

Im sure we probably touched (i mean a 1 hr lesson over the two years!) on natural selection during GCSEs but I didnt learn about it properly until my first year at the Open University.

I studied the big bang in my second, third and forth year with the OU!

To be honest I think learning about how to pay the bills and council tax, how the inland revenue works etc is more important than either of those topics. It might make kids worry about passing their GCSEs a little more appealing. "if you dont go to uni you will earn £200 a week. Rent and council tax costs £200 a week min. Now, how are you gonna eat and live in a house at the same time?" Even bottom set maths kids could work that one out!

 

[Swansen]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

Yeah, no kidding, a lot of what is taught in highschool is so important for later in life, and most high schools don't push the idea that you need higher education, and you need to figure out a career path BEFORE you graduate. Yeah, evolution was taught as a theory when i was in highschool, and physics wasn't a required coarse, but i took it anyways. Yeah, accounting should be a required coarse as well, most definitely, and government regardless of nation should be taught more thoroughly. WAY OFF TOPIC, but anyways, my point could be made for any topic, it just happened to be about the later, and i still don't understand how some one forms opinions about things they don't wholly understand.

 

[thomas234]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

and most high schools don't push the idea that you need higher education

Here in the UK, if your family income is below a certain amount, you either get £30, £20 or £10 per week for carrying on in further education, plus bonuses every few months of about £130. It's called EMA (Education Maintenance Allowance).

I don't get a penny though :dry: Stupid government.

 

[zeus]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

I have had my OU fees paid for by the government. As long as you earn less than £20k ish you get a non repayable course grant and also £250 for materials. Thats from the proper Student Loans Company which dish out repayable loans to the "residential" uni people. 60 points at level 2-3 (NQF level 6) is about £600... 120 points being a full time year.
This year I have to pay cos I dont have a p60 from last year because I have been self employed. Inland Revenue said I dont need to do a tax return this time round so I have no IR documents saying what ive earned. That means i have to pay 2.5 years tax soon :-( Probably about 15-18K Not good!

Further education was never explained to me in school. The natural progression from GCSEs was to do A-levels but no-one said why (so you could go to uni and eventually gain professional status!)
I paid for A-levels at night school just after I left high school for the hell of it and during which time I discovered what university was and why people do A-levels. I did maths and photography because I enjoy both.

 

[thomas234]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

I did maths and photography because I enjoy both.

Same, except my college don't run a photography course :( So I'm doing Maths with Further Maths, Physics and Computing :cool:

 

[Big B]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

Yes, long tittle, but this isn't so much about any of those, i mean, nothing is really proven, and i don't know what i consider myself, i have a lot of ideas, but thats about it. Anyways, i don't know if like there is a group going around my area talking about how the world is only like a couple hundred years old or something, but there has been a lot of talk about it lately. On that, i don't believe you can fully understand anything, or form a good opinion if you only know part of the story. Like, my friend i was talking to the other day, hes read some of the bible and went to church as a kid, and is going into the medical field, so hes knowledgeable, but he didn't know the theory behind evolution, or how radio carbon dating is said to work, or the theory behind the big bang, or how we use various energy waves to look into space. Nor is he THAT versed in the bible, yet he is agnostic, and doesn't believe evolution could work, or believe that we can really "prove" anything. Its basically like this, you could be a mathematical genius, and there is a plan to build this large bridge, and the guy is like no, it won't work, it can't i don't believe it. Yet he won't look at the engineering, to see how its a possibility??? i just don't understand how people form opinions when they have a fraction of the information on a topic, its confusing. Like i explained radiocarbon dating to him, and i could see in his expression that he could tell how that could work, but then he was like no, blah blah.

Yeah, no kidding, a lot of what is taught in highschool is so important for later in life, and most high schools don't push the idea that you need higher education, and you need to figure out a career path BEFORE you graduate. Yeah, evolution was taught as a theory when i was in highschool, and physics wasn't a required coarse, but i took it anyways. Yeah, accounting should be a required coarse as well, most definitely, and government regardless of nation should be taught more thoroughly. WAY OFF TOPIC, but anyways, my point could be made for any topic, it just happened to be about the later, and i still don't understand how some one forms opinions about things they don't wholly understand.

Well, everybody, regardless of it being correct, has an opinion. Let's start with that. Additionally and also regardless of having the whole picture, people have developed an opinion on various topics. Things like experience and level of education on a particular item form such opinions. It's okay to have an opinion, but at the same time, the opinion shouldn't be taken as fact. Your conclusion should be based on what the evidence purports. I think that in many cases, both sides of a particular argument have gone to unfair lengths to attempt to destroy the opposing viewpoint.

And now, to throw you for a loop, here's another thought: relativism.
In some situations, relativism is okay; e.g. the distance to Tokyo from San Diego is longer heading east than west. In others, it's not; e.g. 2+2=4, not 5 or 3, or any other number but 4. If you view everything as having no basis and just a sensation, then you should be able to ignore the "law" of gravity, but you won't, at least under a sound mind.

 

[Swansen]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

I'm not saying people shouldn't have opinions, i'm just saying people need to look a little deeper before they form said opinions and then try to argue your case, it just doesn't make sense. I dunno, lately i have this crazed drive for information, and i've never been one to jump into a conversation in which i don't really understand whats being talked about. Its just crazy to me, but its only half the problem. Some one says something, and it spreads around, and then once it makes its way to a good number of people, without them actually having first hand knowledge, they relay broken information. My mom got an e-mail or something and it was an article about plastics giving off chemicals in water. She was like blah blah, all bottled water, its bad. I humored her throughout the conversation, because i didn't really know. I did some searching, like an hours worth, and what she said/was told had some bases in fact, but it was lexan bottles, and when water bottles were heated with water in them. (also, #1 & #2 plastics were all good, but anything elses is pretty much bad news, but its ok,since thats about all bottled fluids come in) So yeah, its like you said Big B, opinions shouldn't be taken as fact, but no one does anything further to find out if what they have been told has any bases. I've pretty much given up on trying to convince anyone of anything ether, because once people have been told something, being true or not, it takes a friggin lecture to even start to sway their opinions...

 

[DaRuSsIaMaN]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

i just don't understand how people form opinions when they have a fraction of the information on a topic, its confusing.

Yeah ... I have experience with that, too, and it's frustrating. I think that in part, it probably has something to do with Western culture of individualism and the associated rebelliousness. And lots of people take that concept the wrong way. Anyway, my case in point is my friend. He likes to discuss things and ask me questions about what I think about this or that. And I find that he always seems to expect me to have an opinion on things. And not just little things, but broad, sweeping opinions on complicated issues. Yet I find myself telling him "I don't know" all the time. I'll talk about, for example, that here's what I know about it, but that ultimately I'm not really sure what to think. I don't know enough about it. And I think he finds it odd that I say stuff like that all the time. He has lots of opinions, and keeps asking me for mine. Yet I know he's definitely much less educated than I am, and on most of these topics I know more than he does. But he's the one with all the opinions on everything...

it's stupid. I've talked to someone else one time, someone who had this observation: he said people don't say "i don't know" these days. He said people seem to be pressured to choose. Do you believe in God? Do you believe God made Earth in 7 days or whatever? Make a choice. Either that or evolution, the big bang and all that. But you have to choose, can't just sit on the fence. No one says, "well, I'm not sure, maybe it's this or maybe that, but I can't really know for sure." Instead, people seem to think they must choose a faith, or a stance, one or another, and go with it.

This observation is probably true, I'm thinking. I don't know where the mentality comes from. There's nothing wrong with being uncertain rather than hard-headed about your faiths and opinions.

 

[Big B]

knowing the whole story: the bible, god, radiocarbon dating, the big bang, evolut

Everyone has a basis for their opinion. Now, weather it's well-researched is an entirely different matter, either on purpose or not knowing enough to need additional knowledge, not caring, or just not enough available info. Is it good this way? Probably not, but it's the reality that we live in. People are ignorant of things, and not necessarily by their choosing. It would be fantastic if everyone would have all the knowledge on everything, but it just doesn't happen. A more realistic view, IMO, would be to hope that people know what they don't know on and have a disclaimer on that.

Evolution and Creation are both theory (though there are those on both sides that take a leap of faith and do believe one of these arguments is the truth), simply because certain knowledge isn't available, specifically data from a person who was there doesn't appear to exist. If you believe in the Christian God, then He's the starting point, but if you believe in Evolution, this is irrelevent, and still leaves a major piece unsolved.

Also, some things are unknown to start with, so we have to look at what we do know and go from there. A particular opinion is not subject to staying as is. It may very well happen, but it's not a hard and fast rule. As data that's contrary to part or all of said opinion comes along, you'll test it against what you do know and see how it impacts your current view. Nobody has the answers to every single question, stance, etc. out there. We have people out there that are specialized in specific areas, but they're still people like us and our family and friends and co-workers, etc. We are not omnipotent beings. Yes, it can be frustrating, but as individuals, our interests all differ. To various degrees, all of us have some sort of interest in computers, but that doesn't mean we all have the same knowledge and understanding of this subject.