Upgrade Advice and Priceing

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Duncan

Geek Trainee
Im not that experience with PC's but i know the basics, im basicly copying this from TuneUps system information utilitie.
I currently have a 3 year old PC with these specs.

AMD AthlonXP 2000+ 1666MHz
256KB L2 Cache
512MB RAM, not sure on type etc, but i know its 2x 256MB sticks, any information on finding out what type etc would be appreciated.
Legend QDI Apollo KuDoz 7 V2.0 Mobo VIAKT266A (chipset)
Radeon 9600 Pro 256MB 128 bit Graphics card useing the Omega Drivers AGP Series
Windows XP Home SP2

Im looking on a range of upgrades i could make, im really looking to upgrade the motherboard and processor which would mean i would have to buy new RAM, im happy with the Graphics card as this is mainly a gameing PC, and this gfx card seems to be fine.
Im looking to buy a motherboard compatible with AMD Athlon 64 incase i ever upgrade to 64 bit windows systems and should last me a while.
Also if possible could someone give a break down of upgrades by price, eg, buying these would cost around £250, then another that would be around £500 etc etc.
Thanks for any help :), sites with products, and rough prices on individual items would be greatly appreciated.
 
And if possible could someone explain some of this to me, one thing ive always looked to learn is the difference between AMD and Intels processors, i know that just because an AMD Athlon 2000+ gives me 1.67GHz, but a intel for the same price would give me 2.6GHz that this doesnt mean the Intels better. I would like to learn what else is important, as i know there must be something as if it was just the hertz rate everyone would be buying Intels.

Thanks again
 
The reason AMD CPUs run at a lower clock speed with equivelent speed is that they have a more efficient micro architecture and a memory controller directly on the CPU die, thus giving them faster access to the computers memory. AMD CPUs use 12 small pipelines in its architecture while Intels use one 31 stage pipe line. Think of it like an assembly line if you have one long one if you get near the end and screw up you have to completely start over, but with a bunch of small ones if something gets screwed up you only have to redue a small portion of the work. Also AMD CPUs run cooler thus quieter and longer life spans. Personally I am a AMD fan.
 
CPU: AMD athlon 64 3200+(2.0GHZ)£125 (64bit ready)
MoBo: MSI Neo4 SLI £80 (you can uprade dual GPUs)
RAM: OCZ 1GB (dual channel) platinum ddr3200 CAS 2-3-2-5 £82
GPU: Leadtek 6800GT £170
Total: about £460
All prices from overclockers.co.uk
Depending on what PSU you have you might need a new one.
 
Girtho961 said:
MoBo: MSI Neo4 SLI £80 (you can uprade dual GPUs)
GPU: Leadtek 6800GT £170
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Dude, he said he is happy with his Video Card which is AGP, so MSI Neo4 SLI
and the 6800GT are out of the question!

If Your set on keeping your current Video Card i'd recommend either the Abit AV8 3RD Eye or the ASUS A8V Deluxe.
 
pelvis_3 said:
Dude, he said he is happy with his Video Card which is AGP, so MSI Neo4 SLI
and the 6800GT are out of the question!

If Your set on keeping your current Video Card i'd recommend either the Abit AV8 3RD Eye or the ASUS A8V Deluxe.
Click to expand...

Im not dead set on keeping it, but dont need to upgrade it in my opinion, i take it you dont get mobos that Support AGP and whatever that other is? And out of interest what type of card is the other, im all for learning :).
Also whats the difference between AGP and this type, im geussing that this one is a newer and most likely faster type if its with the new motherboards.

Im also interested in what dual graphics cards are? Only NIVIDEA do them if im right, and there called SLI cards?
 
Girtho961 said:
The reason AMD CPUs run at a lower clock speed with equivelent speed is that they have a more efficient micro architecture and a memory controller directly on the CPU die, thus giving them faster access to the computers memory. AMD CPUs use 12 small pipelines in its architecture while Intels use one 31 stage pipe line. Think of it like an assembly line if you have one long one if you get near the end and screw up you have to completely start over, but with a bunch of small ones if something gets screwed up you only have to redue a small portion of the work. Also AMD CPUs run cooler thus quieter and longer life spans. Personally I am a AMD fan.
Click to expand...

Thanks, i understand alot more than i did :P. If possible could anyone give me a few exampls of AMDs equal at intel, im obviously going for AMD, but just out of interest. EG an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ is equal to an Intel Celeron 2.8GHz, or along those lines?

And ive noticed these forums have a ThankYou feature, how often should they be used, should i thank everyone that helps with a little thing, or only those that help alot?

And one more question in this post, what are the L1 and L2 caches on processors?

Last question, i dont know anything about overclocking except its tweaking certain CPUs to give a higher clock speed if im right. So could anyone tell me the speeds of the CPUs they post after they have been overclocked, as i might give it a try :)
 
Girtho961 said:
CPU: AMD athlon 64 3200+(2.0GHZ)£125 (64bit ready)
MoBo: MSI Neo4 SLI £80 (you can uprade dual GPUs)
RAM: OCZ 1GB (dual channel) platinum ddr3200 CAS 2-3-2-5 £82
GPU: Leadtek 6800GT £170
Total: about £460
All prices from overclockers.co.uk
Depending on what PSU you have you might need a new one.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, how do i check my power supply?
 
Those motherboards i linked are AGP compatible but it would be advised to upgrade to PCIe. Yes, AGP is the 'old' interface and PCIe brings new features and better bandwidth. But don't get me wrong, AGP is still good and all but you won't be able to get the latest and greatest Video Cards with the AGp interface!

Yes, nVidia do have what they call SLI, but ATi has just brought out 'Crossfire' which is the equivelant to SLI but is new so is lacking on some features and stability at the moment. If you SLI to cards then it spreads the graphics load across both cards so basically-better graphics.

Well, with the Athlon models basically an AXP 2800+ is equal to a Pentium 4 2.8Ghz, 3000+ = P4 3.0Ghz, 3200+ = P4 3.2Ghz etc...etc...

The thank you feature is just what you think it is, if YOU find a certain post helpful, then it's up to YOU if you want to click thanks or not and it's not compulsary!

L1 Cache (Level 1)
Also referred to as primary cache, L1 Cache is a very small amount of memory that is installed directly onto the CPU. This provides easy and extremely fast access to the most commonly accessed data.

L2 Cache (Level 2)
Also referred to as secondary cache, L2 Cache is a small amount of high-speed memory located close to, and usually on the CPU. L2 Cache allows for high-speed access to the system's most commonly accessed data. On newer CPU's the L2 Cache is most often located directly on the CPU, allowing for higher performance.

Overclocking is not all about CPU's, you can also overclock Northbridge chipsets, RAM and Video Cards but it's not for the faint of heart, as many beginners and even the seasoned overclockers can screw something up. If your into overclocking i'd advise on doing some reading about it first.
 
Girtho961 said:
The reason AMD CPUs run at a lower clock speed with equivelent speed is that they have a more efficient micro architecture and a memory controller directly on the CPU die, thus giving them faster access to the computers memory. AMD CPUs use 12 small pipelines in its architecture while Intels use one 31 stage pipe line. Think of it like an assembly line if you have one long one if you get near the end and screw up you have to completely start over, but with a bunch of small ones if something gets screwed up you only have to redue a small portion of the work. Also AMD CPUs run cooler thus quieter and longer life spans. Personally I am a AMD fan.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Intel's lage pipelines only have to refresh if the branch prediction unit screws up, and this almost never happens as it is very accurate. IMO the P4s were superior to the AthlonXPs for a lot of things if you used 'equivilent models' but since AXPs were usually cheaper you could compensate by buying a more powerful CPU for the same price.

Also very important to note was that only the Athlon64 range had an on die memory controller. The AthlonXPs did not.

BTW the cache on CPUs are not only used for accessing commonly used data, but provide a backup the the registers while the the RAM refreshes itself, minimizing delay.
 
Thanks for all the help, think ill go for a motherboard with PCIe support and just get a new gfx card.

Still need to know about finding what my PSU is.
 
The only way you can find out is to open your case and look at the sticker on your PSU. If that fails you may have to take it out as the sticker may be covered by a plate.
 
Another question for all you helpful people, do you get motherboards that are compatible with both NVIDIA and ATI graphics cards? And do you get motherboards that are compatible with both SLI cards and Crossfire cards (these are the dual cards for both companies if im right).
 
All current motherboards will play nicely with both nVidia and ATI cards however SLI is an nVidia only technology while Crossfire is strickly for ATI cards. You can't mix and match so you'll have to decide ahead of time just what cards you're planning on popping in together (they must be the same make and model too for nVidia whle ATI's crossfire will work with any two crossfire compatable cards, but the effect is somewhat tainted if it's used in conjunction with a slower card). This only applies for a two card setup. If you want to pop in a single card, either ATI or nVidia into either's platform it will work, just no mixing of companies.
 
Exfoliate said:
All current motherboards will play nicely with both nVidia and ATI cards however SLI is an nVidia only technology while Crossfire is strickly for ATI cards. You can't mix and match so you'll have to decide ahead of time just what cards you're planning on popping in together (they must be the same make and model too for nVidia whle ATI's crossfire will work with any two crossfire compatable cards, but the effect is somewhat tainted if it's used in conjunction with a slower card). This only applies for a two card setup. If you want to pop in a single card, either ATI or nVidia into either's platform it will work, just no mixing of companies.
Click to expand...

Thanks, i thought i was correct with most of it but only really wanted to know if there were motherboards which supports SLI and crossfire, and thanks to you, i know there arent :).

Any advice on which to go with for the future, gameing / general use PC.
 
Considering Crossfire has only been out for a very short while, whilst SLI is very mature by now, i would have to say go with nVidia.
The only advantage i can see Crossfire has at the moment is that you can mix cards which means you don't necessarily have to fork out another $350 or whatever for the exact same card. This can it's advantages and it's disadvantages as Exfoliate explained.
 
I'd say nVidia too, Pelvis is right, it's been through a lot of tweaking and revision since it's beginning so at this point it's a more logical choice than Crossfire. However in my opinion if you were to use Crossfire you'd have a better selection of cards to pop in. The X800GT's and GTO's are very good performers for their price. Easily superior to the 6600 line. But crossfire mobo's will not be cheap nor will they be common place so it's not particularly easy to recommend it.
 
Right now, there aren't any Crossfire motherboards available on the market right now. The Crossfire launch was a paper launch, and the technology is a little bit more complicated than SLI. It's good that it's not a complete replica of SLI, but in it's current form, it's a bit cumbersom.

SLI is nice, but you do not have to have it to have a good gaming experience. The GeForce 6600GT is a great card and can play stuff like Doom 3 and FarCry without a hitch and allow you to turn the eye candy up while maintaining smooth gameplay. The X800GTO and such are also nice from what I've been hearing. You can buy and SLI-capable motherboard, but you wouldn't have to jump to SLI immediately. Things always come down in price, so next year you could snag a couple of 7800GTX's for 60% of what they run now.

Get a motherboard like the Asus A8N-SLI and have a power supply like the Enermax EG565P-VE like I do (the unit is certified for SLI by nVidia, but others are also certified) to start with, which will likely run around $250 between those two parts. I know that seems expensive, but you can't go cheap on the power supply. You'll only end up getting burned in the end. The motherboard can be worked around, as you don't have to get that Asus one. It is highly recommended because it's the most mature SLI motherboard available and is a proven solution for both novices and experienced builders.
 
Ive decided to go with the A8N-SLI motherboard, whats the advantages of this but the deluxe or premium version? And i found thismotherboard here but it doesnt mention the AMD Athlon 64 x2, which is a feature i would like if, or when i add a second Processor.

And a few questions on the AMD Athlon 64 x2 technology, if i buy a motherboard that supports it, but only buy one processor, could i buy the same processor singular again and have them both running, or do i need to buy them in a X2 package in the first place?
 
Duncan said:
And i found thismotherboard here but it doesnt mention the AMD Athlon 64 x2, which is a feature i would like if, or when i add a second Processor.

And a few questions on the AMD Athlon 64 x2 technology, if i buy a motherboard that supports it, but only buy one processor, could i buy the same processor singular again and have them both running, or do i need to buy them in a X2 package in the first place?
Click to expand...
Sorry, the X2 doesn't mean you can have two processors.
Courtesy of Wikipedia:

The Athlon 64 X2 is the first dual-core desktop CPU manufactured by AMD. It is essentially a processor consisting of two Athlon 64 cores joined together on one die with some additional control logic. The cores share one dual-channel memory controller, are based on the E-stepping model of Athlon 64 , and depending on the model have either 512 or 1024 kB of L2-Cache per core. The X2 is capable of decoding SSE3 instructions (other than those few specific to Intel's architecture), so it can run and benefit from software optimizations that were previously only supported by Intel chips. This enhancement is not unique to the X2, and is also available in the recently released Venice and San Diego single core Athlon 64's. AMD officially started shipping the Athlon 64 X2 at Computex, on 1st June 2005.
Click to expand...
 
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